Skip Navigation LinksL/L Research Carla’s Niche Interviews Feet to the Fire - November 4, 2007
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Carla’s Niche

Interviews

Carla and Jim’s interview on James Arthur Jancik’s “Feet To The Fire” program on BBS Radio

November 4, 2007

Announcer: And, live from Chicago, here is the black knight of talk radio, James Arthur Jancik.

Jancik: The time has come today. You know the people alive today are going through a lot of stuff, a lot of action, a lot of unbelievable grief, but the time has come for all of these things to change, and as people hold onto the old ways and as the energy turns up, a lot of people will see and go through a lot of bad things, but that is only because of your perspective. If you go towards the positive and let it be and let it go and let it grow, that’s a whole different ballgame. I have done a lot of reading, but I have done more listening over the years to books on tape and people talking and lectures, and so forth.

I was introduced to The Ra Material, also called The Law of One series by Jerry E and was immediately impressed. I am not a big channeling fan per se. It is usually one point source of information. However, reading through this Ra material touches bases with all kinds of other things that I have studied, and we are lucky to have Carla and Jim McCarty here who are two of the three original people going back to those days. Don Elkins, of course, has passed away in 1984, but Carla Rueckert was, in essence, the center of the channel, along with the energies of Don and James McCarty. They were able to connect with Ra, which is an entity far advanced and got a lot of questions answered in clarity.

And while I listen to this material and correlate with other things, I am simply amazed. Their website is www.llresearch.org, where you can read The Law of One on line. There are five volumes of the Law of One books out and you can get them at various bookstores and so forth. And we have with us, live, Carla and Jim. Welcome to the show.

Carla: Thank you so much, James. It is good to be here.

Jancik: It is nice to have you guys here to talk about this because generally when I am reading such deep information, it is from a thousand years ago. It is hard to get people who were first-hand witnesses! And, boy, I don’t think you can get any closer to the inception of The Ra Material than you two guys.

Carla: That is right, although the process started a long time before 198l, [which was] when we got our first communication from those of Ra. If you’d like, I could take you from the beginning of it so you could see how this particular channeling is somewhat different.

Jancik: Yes, you can give us kind of a synopsis of it for the background. Many people can get more detail when they go and if they read this stuff. It would be of help to kind of give those who are being introduced to this kind of like, “How did this happen?”

Carla: Right. The beginning of it was Don Elkins, who was a professor of physics and mechanical engineering at the University of Louisville’s Speed Scientific School. He had been studying paranormal topics since the mid-fifties. He had gone to many a séance. He had talked with J. B. Rhine. He had flown in his small plane - he was a pilot as well as a professor - all over the place, wherever he could talk to Orfeo Angelucci about UFOs or Richard Miller, as you have mentioned, or George Van Tassel or George Hunt Williamson—all of these people were friends of his. And he made sure that he could investigate anything that caught his interest that was in the area of the paranormal.

He had begun by investigating whether or not there was life before birth, and became convinced, subjectively, of reincarnation after doing over two hundred age-regression hypnotic sessions and getting a lot of experimental data that satisfied his curiosity. And so when he met a fellow from Detroit in 1961 who was a member of a group that was receiving channeling, he was interested in seeing this material. [1] And as he read it, he found in it instructions for developing a channeling circle. And being a thoroughgoing scientist, he decided that that was what he wanted to do.

In January 1962, twelve of his physics students and I began to sit down and meditate together on a weekly basis, this being the instruction for generating channeled material. The material began to be generated pretty quickly. I wasn’t interested in channeling. I was interested in the silent part of the meditation, and it wasn’t until 1974 that I began channeling. By this time, all of the twelve original members of the group had grown up and gotten out of college, gotten married, got jobs and moved away, and we didn’t have anyone to continue Don’s experiment. He always considered the channeling an experiment. And when we published the books, it was simply as the report of an experiment. So there was never any urge on Don’s end to make anything of this besides a very interesting research finding.

I began channeling in 1974 and I began to get interested in the channeling after I did it, as a favor to Don, and I think probably I improved on the basic channeling techniques because I like to do things well, and I kept finding ways to create a better channeling atmosphere.

And in 1981, in January, just three weeks after Jim joined our research group, I was teaching a student and Don was sitting with me, and I got the Ra group. And I challenged them as I always challenged spirits, and they passed the challenge fine. So I went ahead and began channeling and immediately went to sleep.

Don knew he had something by the tail and he, from that point on, recorded everything. The Ra Material was our name for the first twenty-six sessions of the Law of One series. And as the series kept getting larger, we ended up with 106 sessions altogether. We called it The Law of One, Books I through V. That is why it has two titles.

But the reason that the channeling is unique is not only that I was a careful researcher myself, and was attempting always to become a better channel, but also because Don was a scientist, a physicist, and very, very experienced in all phases of paranormal research. So his questions to the Ra group were amazingly insightful, and the conversation was fascinating as a result of his breadth and depth of knowledge.

Jancik: What was the material that Don first discovered that explained how to create a channeling group?

Carla: We have always called it The Brown Notebook, although I have never seen it in a brown notebook. I guess the fellow that wrote it down originally wrote it down in a brown notebook, but it was a transcribed version that we saw. This guy had had a psychic UFO experience. He had seen UFOs on the ceiling of his bedroom. This is fairly common if you look at the literature. A lot of UFO experiences are psychic rather than actual, you know, consensus reality. But after this amazing close encounter of the psychic kind, he began receiving information, which he wrote down in this notebook. The messages started by being fairly short, a paragraph or two, and you could see how his channel developed and opened and he was eventually getting messages of the kind that you see in our work.

Of course, the Ra channeling is unique in that it was a tuned trance telepathy rather than being conscious channeling, so it enjoys a clarity and a specificity that conscious channeling simply cannot achieve. But embedded in this material, from what we always called the Detroit group, although I believe the Detroit group called itself Man, Consciousness, and Understanding, was this instruction as to how to create a channeling circle without having to go through a close encounter with a UFO.

We are at this point resurrecting this old material, The Brown Notebook and other later channelings from the Detroit group, and hope to have them up on our site some time in the future because it is sort of our granddaddy. It is where we came from.

Jancik: We are going to have questions throughout the night that are going to range from clarification on the material, to questioning the actual channel for either validity or safeness. That is probably going to happen throughout the night. One of the things I wonder, you said you invoked the name or spirit of Jesus the Christ.

Carla: Oh, you read that. Yes, I do. I am a mystical Christian. I leave the dogma at the door, but I love Jesus, and so I have always attempted to follow His way of life and to appreciate His Christ-consciousness. And so I challenge in the name of Jesus the Christ, and I ask the spirit to say that Jesus is Lord. I do that three times in a row. I have found that it is very helpful to repeat because sometimes you can be a little lax in your challenging the first time, but not the second time and, certainly, not the third. I have tried to make really sure that I have got somebody on the horn that is worth listening to.

Jancik: that impressed me when I was reading you because what I have found, coming from a Christian background myself. I like your phrase about leaving the dogma at the door, but I have found that you can’t seem to have both. You have the New Age crowd, which says, “Oh, yes, Jesus was a nice guy,” or he was this, that or the other thing, and then you have the Christian crowd, which has him as being not incarnate. And then if you want to try and have channeling or contacts and talk Jesus, it is rare. So that is one of the things that I find interesting here. And it is very biblical that you would challenge the spirits, as James wrote, and also about if the spirits do not confess Jesus as born. So I think that was the first thing that caught my ear, because I was listening rather than reading it.

So when you did this, you tranced out or fell asleep or whatever. And when you woke up, I would imagine you were kind of surprised at what Don and Jim were telling you.

Carla: Oh my goodness, yes. In fact, they wouldn’t let me read the channeling for the first twenty-three sessions and I was going slightly mad!

Jancik: Oh really. You must really trust them.

Carla: Well certainly, with my life. These are my dear partners and friends, and I certainly did trust them. But it was kind of funny, because they would use the phraseology of the Ra group, and everything to the Ra group is a distortion from Oneness one way or another, so they would ask me if I had a distortion towards hunger/fullness and did my mind/body/spirit complex have this distortion? And I would go, “Why are you talking like this? Have you lost your minds?”

Finally Don asked the Ra group if it would be all right for me to read the material and the Ra said, “Why certainly. She is not producing this material. We are. She can read it just as well as anyone else.” That was a great relief to me.

Jancik: I guess perhaps you could use the term, “got one by the tail”. I would think that perhaps Don was worried that you would read it and freak out and not want to continue, and he was really getting some good data.

Carla: No, he was a scientist. He wasn’t worried about me freaking out. I am a notably cool person. No, he was worried about contaminating the material.

Jancik: OK, that’s good. I like that kind of check and balance along the way. It is good having the fact that he was a scientist as opposed to a spiritualist or something who would kind of let stuff come in, but would not challenge it.

Now people, when we are going to be talking about individual subjects, to explain it and set it up would take a long time. You really have to read the material when we get these questions that come up. Because there are various densities or levels of life. We are in the third density. We are going into the fourth density. I have also listened to David Wilcock’s comments on this. Have you talked with him or have you read his comments?

Carla: Well, David lived with us for a year actually, about four years ago.

Jancik: Oh, okay, well then you might know him.

Carla: We know him well. David has done more to make people aware of the Law of One than just anyone else, I think. He is a very good psychic in his own right. He does a great psychic reading, although I don’t believe he is doing them any more. And always, when he is talking with people, he talks about the principles of the Law of One. He talks about them in terms of new science. So it is really fun to listen to Wilcock go.

Jancik: People might want to check him out. [2] He did a lot of writing on 2012. In fact, I was listening to a post he did, so I heard a lot of the background, I am probably not going to be able to give details on it. If people call for questions, we will do our best to do a little background on it, but there are so many things about this, which is amazing, more so than other things that I have read.

Are you familiar with the Urantia book? [3] And then there is the Cassiopaeans [4] and all of that. Are you familiar with those other sources?

Carla: Yes, I am.

Jancik: How are those sources line up as far as being valid or comparable with the Ra source in the data basically?

Carla: Let me be diplomatic and say that I think that everyone must look at a piece of channeled material on its own merits and with his own discrimination. This is because of the fact that what happens with a great many channelings is that the channel is a loving, good, positive person who starts out all positivity and receives very good material. And then what usually happens is that fear-based questions begin to intrude upon the conversation. Once you introduce fear into the questions to a spiritual channel, that spiritual channel will be unable to maintain the original contact. However, there is always the loyal opposition, which uses the same light and is able to pass itself off very easily, if unchallenged, as a positive channel and just starts polluting the material. And you get, “All is love, all is one,” and then a little stab of, “But the end is coming.” And then, “All is one, all is love,” and then, “Grrr, but the end is near, and you must be afraid. You must be very afraid. You must be afraid of the grays, and you must be afraid of this and that.” That process happens a lot, and anyone who looks at material can see the marks of those fear-based questions and the fear-based answers starting to come in.

And there is also another very good thing to watch for. You know that the channeling has been polluted is if you start hearing about an elite, that there will be some chosen and others will be left behind, because the infinite Creator is a very inclusive fellow.

Jancik: I think that your answer is very well answered. And the fact is that I have had the experience myself, not in channeling, in the classical sense. I don’t want to use the word channeling, but I am an energy channel or a conduit or whatever, and I have noticed that when I would think of fear, or some type of a negative emotion, that it affected the data that was coming in. I had some visual type of stuff and I can’t explain it. It is like when you look up to the left, there it is, but then it’s not there. I have tried to explain it and I don’t have words. But when I entered in the emotion, even when it was funny or sad or scared or holy and reverent, when I had that emotion, it actually influenced or colored what was coming through.

So when you said that, it was very well put. Because one of the reasons for reading the material is going to be to find out what goes on. What is going to happen? And there is this battle between the over-simplified (I guess that is my word) “Everything is just going to be wonderful” view to an apocalyptic view. By listening to a reading - I keep saying listening because I was listening to the text - by listening to it I saw that basically what you see is what you are going to get. What you pay attention to is what you will be conscious of, and if you are going to have a fear-based reading, Armageddon type of energy, that is going to your creative matrix into the future.

Carla: Right. It was like you were saying at the very beginning of the program. There are fourth-density waves just crashing upon the planet all of the time now. They are waves of truth and light. And truth and light are very difficult to bear. All of those things that you didn’t want to look at in this lifetime, and have sort of tucked away in your shadow side are smiting you in the face all of a sudden, and you are having to deal with loving that part of yourself, accepting that part of yourself, and asking that part of yourself to become part of the daylight side, so that all of those seemingly negative, shadowy things like anger, fear, and so forth, can be morphed into grit and determination and stubbornness to hold your way. If you cooperate with these energies of truth and light, you just take fire. It may be a difficult, challenging, transformative period, but you are soaring.

On the other hand, if you are resisting, if you are trying to hold onto what you know, and what has been the way things are in the past, then you are being buffeted by these waves and then it can be very painful and discouraging.

Jancik: Another very good point that I got from reading The Ra Material was, when I have had personal revelations or experiences, or when I have heard other people’s dreams and other things, the problem is that the subjective experience of the dreamer or the person who gets the information is the most significant thing that that individual gets from it. So they are going to believe what they got is truth because, well, look what happened. It came in a dream I saw visions, or whatever. And yet when I read the actual The Ra Material, its interest to me wasn’t that it came from a channel. It was the data itself written on the page or listened to that was interesting. It wasn’t a personal experience you were writing about. The information was the center. You didn’t go into long details about these things that happened and the wonderful feelings and energies. It was question and answer. Question and answer. I really appreciated that as far as making it the way I look at things credible.

We must stop and take a break and will continue talking live. We have Carla and James who are two of the three of The Ra Material folks that are here to answer your questions about their material. We’ll be right back to continue right after this.

(There is a musical pause with an ad dubbed over it.)

Jancik: We are back live talking with Carla and Jim. Welcome back to the show. I appreciate you guys taking this time out here. I am just throwing out questions and Carla seems to be taking them all, and that is fine, but, Jim, if you just want to pop in here, I am not going to be addressing either of you because you are both involved, so I am just going to be throwing out things in general.

I mentioned Richard Miller because as I was listening to both of these works, I did notice things that were similar. Just to give you for example, Richard Miller talked to Venusians and Martians. And when he talked about them, seeing them as being regular humans, et cetera, I thought that was kind of strange since we can look at Venus now and see quite clearly that the temperature it is very hot there and the atmosphere is very unpleasant. And Mars itself is also unpleasant. But then when I listened to The Ra Material and learned about fourth density and fifth density, I realized that when third-density life is incompatible to fourth density, therefore, you can’t see it. It seemed to me that it was possible that Soltec and Mercur and all of the ones he was talking to, they may have just simply left out the whole concept of density. Would that be a fair assumption?

Carla: The Ra group is a sixth-density source. They aren’t actually on Venus any more, but they are from the influence of Venus, and their beings are pure light. They still say that it is a physical vehicle, but to us, it would look like light. So they are perfectly able to enjoy the atmosphere, et cetera, of Venus because of the fact that they don’t have a chemical distillery for a body which is very sensitive to temperature, pressure, such as we do.

We certainly couldn’t live on Venus or Mars. We barely are living here on Earth! But it is a matter of density. Actually it is easy to think about densities if you think about your TV set or your radio stations. Each density is like a different channel on the TV set. You click from one channel to another and there is a different frequency and they interpenetrate each other.

Fourth density is interpenetrating third density at this time and chooses not to be visible because it would upset the natives of third density to see it. And they will not have a visible fourth density until such time as all of the third-density people have died out and have been replaced by fourth-density people. But we have first density that we are looking at all of the time: the elements, rocks, the sky, and air, earth, fire and water. We have second density, the plants and animals. And then we have third density, which is us. All of those are not only interpenetrating, but are visible to each other. It is just a kind of courtesy thing, I think, on the part of the guardians of fourth density, that [fourth density] is not visible to us.

There are a lot of people who are seeing it. I have gotten a lot of mail on that, where there is either a psychic or in some cases, actual waking vision of the fourth-density world being created as we speak. I personally am convinced that it’s done. The fourth density is here.

Jancik: I also have noticed that there are a lot of changes that I personally are going through that correlate with some of the commentary on ascension.

I am actually glad you brought up a little thumbnail on density because I have talked about it on the air here a few times, and I have read about it so I am talking from within the material. There are a lot of people who might not realize what density is. You see Miller not mentioning densities at all in any of his talks and, yet, there is a lot of correlation with the data given by Ra, and yet Ra talks density.

I am just wondering if, when contact was made with Miller back in the fifties, there was a fifties sci-fi kind of envelope. It was brought to him almost like a sci-fi movie at the time. That was kind of how people felt about aliens then, not having this interdimensional concept. The ability to go to a higher level was not really in the public eye, and the story was packaged in a container of a more fifties sci-fi as opposed to your information being more complete, or on the way to being complete.

Carla: I think you have to go back and look at Don’s part in this. Because Don was extremely firm about finding out how things worked. That is what he wanted to know. How does it all work? And after he got a good grip on the material, after the first 26 sessions, he actually went back, at the beginning of Book II to the beginning of creation, and said, “OK, what was the first thing? How did this happen?” He was able to bring this information through because of the very intelligent and very incisive questions that he asked.

By the way, just to finish the idea of densities so that you see how tidy the cosmology of The Law of One is, we have been through the first three densities, the density of elements, the density of plants and animals, and the density of humans, which is called the Density of Choice. It is where we choose whether we want to be service-to-others or service-to-self in our polarity. Then the fourth density is the Density of Love. The fifth density is the Density of Wisdom. The sixth density is the Density of Unity where love and wisdom are brought into a dynamic whole. Seventh density is the Density Foreverness, so-called because it is leaning towards the Octave Density, which is where the Creator’s heart beats and it all begins over again with going into another first density in another creation.

The cosmology is extremely tidy and speaking as a person who read a lot of philosophy in college, I feel that this is the most internally consistent philosophy that I have ever seen, bar none.

Jancik: Why would you leave a higher realm and say, “Let’s incarnate again. Let’s go through that mess all over again. Maybe next time it won’t be such a mess?” Is the third density always going to be a battle between service-to-others and service-to-self polarized people?

Carla: Yes, I think it is the nature of third density to face the choice that we have before us, of how to express our love. Do we express our love by being of service to other people, by being of service to the Creator and sort of framing our life as a radiant thing? Or do we call ourselves “numero uno” and decide that the creation is all about me, and so I am going to order my life in such a way that everyone in my life is helping me, and I will tell people what to do for their own good. That is the nature of the negative polarity.

There is a definite choice to be made here and it affects the next two densities. It affects the Density of Love and it affects the Density of Understanding. Because you can graduate in service-to-others polarity and go into a positive fourth and then positive fifth density, or you can graduate in service-to-self polarity and go through negative fourth and negative fifth densities. Both polarities use the same light. But if you are negatively oriented, you use the light without using your heart, without opening your heart. That is the difference between the two polarities, basically.

So it is a great big choice. Why we would do it again? I think it is not that we are choosing to do it again. I think it is that we are all part of the infinite Creator, at least according to the Confederation material, and the Creator wants to know Itself. The first thing that distorts absolute creatorship in the Ra material is free will, and it is by free will that the Creator decides that It wants to know Itself better.

So it sends out a bunch of sparks of Itself; that is, me, you, Jim, everybody that is human, and says, “Check it all out. Give Me some information here. Tell Me what you see.” So we go through all of this illusion, illusion upon illusion as we know it is - the scientists tell us this is an illusion - and we harvest our feelings and our thoughts and our conclusions, and that harvest is that which helps the Creator to know Itself better. Jim, do you have some thoughts?

Jim: Well the thing that most people report when they go through what is called the “near death experience” is that the place they go to is very harmonious, very loving, and they feel very much at home. You would wonder why anybody would want to come back to such a place to this place where things are much more difficult. But what seems to be the case is that this life that we live here on this Earth is kind of like a laboratory, and it is a place where we can learn to grow. The place that we go after death is very harmonious and peaceful, but it is not so easy to grow there because there is nothing, say, to push against. There is no opposition. There is no real reason to try to improve ourselves, to increase our understanding, or to open our hearts greater in love. That is what we do here.

Here, we become more than that. We become what we hope to become. We become more able to love, more able to shine our light, more able to share wisdom with others. What we have here is a laboratory where we are refining ourselves.

Jancik: One of the things in the Ra material that made sense to me was the correlation between what we call “heaven and hell” in Christianity, in Judaism and, for that matter, in many of the world’s religions, and the fourth density positive and fourth density negative. People who graduate fourth density negative are going to look to serve themselves to a greater level, but from a positive perspective, looking at fourth density negative, I mean hell is a pretty good word to describe it.

Carla: Right. You see a lot of service-to-self type organizations here in third density where people are sort of practicing on fourth density negative, like big corporations, for instance, where the credit is taken by the CEO, and all of the little worker bees give their all so that the CEO can be thought to run a good company. Or the Army, for instance, where whatever the non-coms do is credited to the Lieutenants and what the Lieutenants do is credited to the Captains and the Majors and Colonels and Generals, on up the line, so that if you read casually in history, you think that the generals won the wars and the soldiers were simply cannon fodder. You know, the army is a basically service-to-self oriented organization.

The line between service-to-others and service-to-self is sometimes challenging to choose because of the fact that so much of service-to-self has been incorporated into our consensus reality and is shown by the culture itself to be at least neutral, if not positive. It is confusing because of that.

Jancik: You know when you really understand service-to-self and service-to-others; when you look at that energy; and then you look at, say, various religious organizations, where most people are “doing God’s will,” out there, knocking on doors, getting people to find Jesus and all of this stuff, you realize they are really operating on a negative polarity, making people do what they say because they think it is best for them.

Carla: That is correct. Remember what I said about when you see the elite, you know that somebody is on the wrong track? Usually, the more fundamentalist and inerrantist a sect is, the more they are quite sure that the only people who are going to make it into their heaven are people who think just as they do.

Whereas, the one known as Jesus the Christ would be absolutely upset with this kind of distortion of what he said, which was, “Thank you for visiting me in prison, thank you for feeding me when I was hungry.”

Remember, the disciples said, “When did we do that, Lord?”

And He said, “Well when you do it to the least of these my brethren, you do it unto Me.” Jesus was very, very inclusive.

So what has been done in churches and throughout not just the Christian world but in settled religions of all kinds, often, bears little resemblance to the bright ideas and glowing ideals of the founders.

Jancik: If you were to look at the people throughout the world who are warring, they would be members of the more fundamental of all the various religions, and even, if you want to look at it, political fundamentalists, we’ll call it. The more conservative and fundamental a political party is, the more apt it is to take a more active, forceful role.

It is not to say that everybody in any political party is trying to serve self in their various ways. But it kind of takes a lot of the wind out of their sail when someone gets ready to talk about how much good they are doing for others. People who are doing good for others just do it.

Carla: That is right and I think that it is below the radar of politics, religion, and the big icons of our culture that the work of the refinery of souls, if you will, or the school that we are in, in third grade here, works. You see people every day that may not know a lot. They may not have a lot of education, but they are so service-to-others oriented. They just glow! And you know that those people are graduates and are going to positive fourth density, regardless of what they believes or don’t believe. It is just the way they are and the way that essence of who they are makes them act.

Jancik: One of Ra’s statements that impressed me was when they said that if you have a negative entity who is going to interact with positive people on this level, the best that they can do as far as imparting information is to point out catastrophes that are coming. It is like they are not going to be able to tell you how you can advance, and choose, and all of this stuff. Negatively polarized information is going to focus on the negative aspects of this shift from 3 to 4 D.

Carla: Yes.

Jancik: What I am finding out is that a whole lot of people who are talking about future events are talking about negative things. It is rare for somebody to go into the mechanism of the change and then point out the positive aspects of it unless there are some groups who are just kind of fluffy positive. You know what I am saying?

Carla: Yes.

Jancik: So be that as it may, when Ra did talk about these things that could happen, what I got out of it was, if a critical mass of people on this planet were to choose service-to-others polarity in love, then the apocalypse, which is supposedly around the corner, would not happen. It is not a mandate.

Carla: I don’t think it will happen. We have been getting information from the Q’uo group, which is the entity that I channel at this point, and have for I guess a quarter of a century, that they are really surprised at how quickly that the grass-roots population of Planet Earth is waking up globally. People are not satisfied with the status quo. They want to serve; they want to learn; they want to grow. They want to open their hearts and they do not think that the possibility/probability vortices, which is the way they put it, point towards an apocalypse.

Let me run quickly through what the Confederation entities see as what happens at graduation. In the first place, it doesn’t all happen at once. It happens when you die, and die naturally. You go through the process of death. You enter the gates of larger life and you are able to graduate, if you can.

The way that it is decided is, there is a stairway, shall we say, of light. Every step has a more dense light. At a certain point, that density of light moves from third density to fourth density. So you walk up the steps of light, and you stop when you start to get uncomfortable because of the fierce light. Where you stop is where you belong. If you are still in third density, then you will have to go to another planet for another 75,000 years or so. This is what we have been doing here on Earth for 75,000 years: going to McDonald’s and learning how to love. You will be doing that again. You are just repeating the grade. That is the worst thing that can happen to you.

Otherwise, if you have kept on walking into fourth density light before you have had to stop, you are now in fourth density, and you have graduated. It is as simple as that.

There is no judge. You judge where you are comfortable as a soul, how much light you can absorb, how much is comfortable to you, and then you take it from there.

Now personally, I want to graduate because there are so many more options available to you in fourth density then there are in third.

Jancik: If I am standing on a 3D step and there is 4D a few steps up there, and I am feeling uncomfortable, I am going to drive forward up to the first 4D step, because this guy does not want to come back to this again.

Carla: Well, I think a lot of people are right where you are.

Jancik: What you are saying also goes along with The Tibetan Book of the Dead, [5] which talks about that. Is there any room for a Buddha or a Savior who could, say, for whatever reason, kind of help you to the fourth-density steps?

Carla: According to the Confederation material, such entities as Jesus the Christ, the Buddha, one’s guru and all of those who stand in the stead of Christ for many, help you in this life by giving you a glimpse, giving you an idea, of what it is to have an open heart, to be in love with Love, to be able to be un-swayed by the appearance of things, and simply to remain serenely in your open heart and to deal compassionately with life as it is.

But once you get into this walking the steps of light, it is you and you alone that must “walk that lonesome valley by yourself,” [6] according to the Confederation material.

Jancik: So, going along the line of thinking, negative entities’ information would dwell on the negative aspect, the fear aspect, the Earth changes and whatever. But the way you just portrayed it, you said, well, the way this works is, first you die. So what you are saying there is a 100% death rate from 3D to 4D.

Carla: That is it. We are all under a death sentence. It is just a question of how long we get to live.

Jancik: Any way we look at it, if we had been born one hundred years ago, then we would probably be dead before this particular event happens. What about the concept of “the rapture”“ I don’t necessarily believe in that, I think the doctrine of the rapture is a manufactured doctrine drawing upon various Bible verses. But Paul says that at the rapture the dead in Christ shall rise and then we will join Him in the sky and be with our Lord.

Carla: And so does Jesus and so does John the Baptist. It is a very strong element in the Bible, both the Old Testament and New Testament, actually.

Jancik: But it sounds like the people who are alive would go to that level while being alive, if I can use that term.

Carla: To me, again, it is a matter of your discrimination. If that makes sense to you, and this is an article of faith for you, I certainly wouldn’t want to interfere with anyone’s faith. But Paul, himself, said that there was a spiritual body and there was a natural body and why would we want to take the natural body into the next density? Why not take the spiritual body?

So I think Paul had the right of it when he said that, rather than when he was talking about trying to drag this poor physical, chemical distillery of a body into higher densities. It just won’t work.

Jancik: It is probably just semantics. I mean I didn’t think that the physical body would be taken to heaven. I think the process would be different if you were to die and then wake up afterwards on the “other side,” rather than going through the curtain consciously. I kind of like that idea!

But anyway, hold on. We have to take a break and we’ll be back and continue talking on The Ra Material, The Law of One with Carla and Jim.

(There is a break with advertisements. They end with, “Feet to the Fire is a synergistic team effort and we need your help. Thanks for listening and reaching for the skies within.”)

Announcer: And now, live from Chicago, here is the Black Knight of Talk Radio, James Arthur Jancik.

Jancik: That is the key, that is the key. I don’t know about you, but I am ready to go to 4D positive! When I realized the correlation between the old heaven and hell and the concept of the harvest, I see that the old way was to scare you into positivity, which is not really a good idea. It is not really good and it also allowed all of the negatively oriented people to slip right in those positions.

With us today we have again Jim and Carla, the two individuals who were involved with Don Elkins and the Ra material channeling project. Welcome back to the show.

Carla and Jim: Thank you.

Jancik: I think you said before that when you open a positive channel and you start feeling fear, than the positive channel closes and then there is a negative being all too happy to pick up from that point. It seems like that just describes the whole realm of religion. It starts out a wonderful experience, and then fear comes in, and then the negative entities get involved and the next thing you know, it becomes its own opposite.

Carla: That is true, and if you look at it from the standpoint of how things began and how they go on, things begin spontaneously from an inspiration, from visions and ideals, and then a group gathers around the prophet, the teacher or the seer and that group wants to continue to exist. And so it starts thinking about, “How do we maintain this group?”

It stops being about the information and becomes about maintaining the status quo, which kills the inspiration, the vision, the spontaneity, and substitutes security and survival of the church This is so in channeling or in the field of religion, or you could spread it even further than that and say, in many political “isms”. They begin as just a blazing, wonderful, “Isn’t this going to be great?” idea. And certainly our country was founded by those rebels who thought they had a better way to do things. And yet one wonders how the American spirit would be looked at by the founding fathers as we sort of limp into the twenty-first century, dismantling the Constitution as we go.

So it is really one of those things where you have to be absolutely, exquisitely careful, once your vision has begun to be shared, in making sure that it doesn’t turn into a settled religion - that it doesn’t turn into a corporation. I have tried really hard for the last thirty years or so to keep that from happening with the Confederation material. There are always people who want to make The Ra Material, especially, but all the material I have channeled, into a Bible. And my basic statement about that is, “Not on my watch!” It is a very real difficulty.

Jim: On the spiritual side, this type of information or action of a prophet, a seer or a channel is seen as a light and as a source of power. The negatively oriented entities look at that light and source of power, and their desire is to take it over, dominate it and control it in order somehow to be able to get that power for themselves. So they begin to offer temptations to the prophet, the seer or the channel in ways of gaining money, social prestige or political power. These are ways of tempting the channel, prophet or seer away from that true path on which he or she began. All groups go through this.

Jancik: I mean everyone, including radio talk show hosts! I’ve seen this stuff happen before my eyes to others. And I have seen this come to me and my show hasn’t even gotten that big yet, but I am seeing it already. I kind of figure, OK, I’ve got a leg up on it. So if I get, “I am wanting to take over the show and if you just do this, then this will work,” I say, “No, I’ve got to do it like my gut says it, and that’s just the way it’s got to be.”

It is like there is not even an option. Now, of course, by saying that, I don’t know if the negative powers that be are saying, “Oh yeah, we’ll just see about that!” But I have already pretty much got that together. If you are trying to find the truth, and that is where you are going to be heading, that is the goal and that is where it is.

It is not always popular. When people want to find truth, the truth is not always popular. There are a lot of people who want you to support their truth, and there are also people who want you to hammer them with a big ego so that they can latch onto what you are doing and feel secure that way.

Carla: And to a certain extent, that is fine. The whole teacher/student relationship is based on one person being willing to take the lead and to say, “Let me give you this thought. Think about that.” But it ends up becoming a mutual relationship where the teacher is learning as much as the student, and the student is teaching as much as the teacher.

Jancik: I’ve learned from your earlier answer that when I bring up a bunch of different channels, I cannot expect you to say, “Yup, that one is good and that one is bad.” You have given principles to go by. With that being said, though, I can’t help but note the correlation between the Richard Miller material and your material. And yet the Miller material seems to have more of an apocalyptic view of things in its predictions.

Carla: I think that there is a psychological basis for this attraction to the apocalypse. And that is that, fundamentally, we know we are going to die. And we don’t want to die. I think that this psychologically sets us up for projecting our own personal dilemma onto the universe, and inferring that everybody is going to die. It is going to happen all at once!

Basically what I say when people try to pin me down is that I don’t know if it is going to happen that way or not. I am just a researcher and just reporting on what the Confederation said.

Say that it does happen. OK. If it does happen, it happens. There is nothing that we can do to lengthen our lives or shorten them. If we all are to be blinked out in a minute, then that is what is going to happen. But in the meantime we have our area of control and our area of choice. We get to choose how we live between now and when this experience ends. So we have a legitimate freedom within the sphere of our limitations of being alive and in a body, et cetera.

And we get to choose how we are going to be, and who we are going to be, and Whose we are going to be, I guess you could say, in terms of identifying with positive or negative aspects. So I don’t really see that the rapture is a fearsome thing, even if it did happen like that. Because death will happen.

I have died. I was dead for about two minutes when I was 13. I had, not one of those near-death experiences, but a death experience. I ended up deciding to come back and finish out this lifetime. But because of that I know that there is nothing frightening at all about death. As a matter of fact, if you happen to be in pain, it is a great relief.

My kidneys failed when I was 13, and I suddenly found myself in another realm. In one instant I was mortally ill in a sick bed and in the next instant, I was free of blemishes, walking on my own two feet and going towards the temple that was over the hill. All of the colors were alive, and I could see music in the air sparkling, as well as hear it.

And then I heard this voice-over. It said, “Well, Carla, you have really picked a tough incarnation. If you want to, you can come back and do one incarnation and then another incarnation, and split up your mission. Or, if you want to, you can go back into your present life, although we don’t usually do this. We’ll let you go back and finish what you started.”

And, you know, I calculated. “I am 13 now. I have almost made it through childhood and do not want to go through two incarnations. I’m going back.”

So here I am! I think that probably producing the Law of One material was the first incarnation. I am on my second one now. Hopefully I will be able to pursue that with great joy and vigor for a long time yet.

Jancik: It is funny you mention that. When people call in to ask if there is reincarnation or not, I have always expressed the belief that it is irrelevant because we are in this incarnation. And oftentimes looking at past incarnations almost seems to be a diversion from what you should be doing here.

But no, we are seeing things reincarnate within our own lifetimes. One of the subjects I have had on this show is looking at the sixties and seventies, the political, spiritual and sociological aspects and comparing that era to now. It is almost exactly the same. The war over there, the peace movements, people being tired of physical worries such as the economy falling apart, people losing the whole idea of it. And it’s only been thirty years. Instead of reincarnating a whole lifetime after this lifetime, the structure is repeating its cycle within my human lifetime. It is really speeding up. You can get a lot done now. And there are people who are alive now, who have been through it before, who can help this time with their experience of a “past life”. But it is all within this life.

Now I find the subject of wanderers fascinating. A wanderer from sixth density would be one who has combined fourth-density love and fifth-density wisdom. And this is what Ra is. Ra is a planet-worth of souls who have united under one consciousness. Is that a good way to put it?

Jim: Right.

Jancik: OK. So now here is what I am trying to figure out. I am a sixth-density person. I have been through all of this stuff, got it altogether. Why on earth would I want to come back as a third-density being? I am at risk for losing the forward momentum that I have gained, because there is a veil here. I might get lost and caught up in here. It sounds like it is a very noble thing to do, but it is not really wise. It would just seem like sort of a risky business.

Jim: Well, actually wanderers can come from fourth, fifth or sixth density. Ra mentioned that most of them that are here now are from sixth density because it takes a great deal of spiritual oomph, I guess you could say, to come back here and to attempt to be of service to those who are trying to make their choice to be of service to others or service to self.

One of the things that seems to be true for people who do make the graduation here is that when they get on the other side and discover the nature of reality and how we really are one, their great desire is to be of service and to help other people, and when they feel and hear and sense the call on Planet Earth from those of us who are here and need help, there is really no choice other than to come back, because they desire so much to be of service, that this is the obvious way to do it.

And they have such a strong feeling of the unity of all things, and the rightness of all things, that they do not fear the forgetting that they must go through in order to come back here and to be able to, shall we say, complete or live their lives on the same level as any other entity on the planet.

So in order to come back, they make that choice and they come back, and they attempt to be of service in whatever way they can because they are so aware of the total unity of all things.

Jancik: I have done a lot of thinking about it since I read about what a wanderer is. A lot of it resonated with me. I wasn’t really pleased with that resonance for some reason and that is a whole other pondering. But one of the things that I was thinking about is Jesus. According to Ra, Jesus was from fourth density, at the top of his class, if I can use that term. And then he decided, rather than move on to fifth density, to come back here and help us. Now here is a fourth-density being who comes back to third density, retains much of the fourth-density knowledge and love, et cetera, and brings it into third density. I don’t know if he remembered his mission during his life or whether he woke up from birth and realized it.

And then you have fifth- and sixth-density beings who come back. I would presume that they would have a greater energy level, be smarter, better, faster, whatever, and yet, they are lost. Now is this a reflection on how focused Jesus was as a fourth-density being, to be able to break through the veil? Or is there something harder for a sixth density being as far as being able to break through the veil of forgetting?

Carla: I think that whether it is Jesus or whether it is you or I, the problem is the same, how to wake up from the sleep of life on Earth. Jesus apparently was drawn to the mystical aspects of the Jewish religion, the Essenes, and got a boost towards breaking through the veil that way when he was a kid. Certainly, a great challenge for any wanderer is simply to wake up, to remember the mission.

And it can be said that our culture is not helpful in this regard because it really is one that aims towards distraction and sleep, and so magnetizing our minds. But there is that pull, you know. There is that feeling that, “The Earth is not my home.” There is that feeling of isolation from the people around you, even if you are able to communicate well and get along well. There is an inner solitude; a feeling of being lonely and feeling that, “I don’t come from here. I don’t belong here.” And I think this all helps you to kind of wake up.

I wrote a book called A Wanderer’s Handbook in 2001 and I would recommend that for anybody that wants to investigate the possibility that he may be a wanderer. Because being a wanderer has a fairly well-defined symptomology. Fortunately, because of the fact that I have been on the internet for a long time, I have had a whole lot of questions about this material come in digital form, and a lot of the questions are about being a wanderer.

So I formed the book by looking at all of the questions that had been asked me over the years. Then I organized the questions and wrote essays on all of those questions in a way that logically flowed. So if you have a lot of allergies, if you have this feeling that you have a mission, if you have this sense of not belonging here, you know, well, OK, so I am a wanderer.

But get a grip. You are now an Earth native. It doesn’t matter, as you said, what your last incarnation was, sixth density, fifth density, so what? Now we are all third-density humans and our desire is to become more than we are and to make graduation. So we just need to roll into that feeling of unity and solidarity with everybody on the planet. It doesn’t matter if they are Earth natives or if they came here from Mars or Maldek or Sirius or Deneb or any of those places mentioned in the Confederation material. We are all in third density together, trying our very best to wake up.

And I think we help each other to wake up as we find ourselves in those wonderful moments when our hearts are open, and we do see that our neighbors and we are one, and that to serve another is to serve the self and to serve the Creator. And, you know, if you can remember the joy and the radiance of those moments and live that, then you kind of infect other people who think, “Gee, you know, I’d like to be that joyful. I would like to be that radiant too.”

And you say, “It is an easy enough thing to do. Open your heart. Take a look at this moment. There is a love in this moment and probably it is going to have to start with you. And you are good to go.”

Jancik: You know you are saying these things and I find them funny, but it is a cool kind of funny. Basically I gave that speech when I was teaching a very fundamental Baptist Sunday School adult Sunday School class. I taught that to live the gospel, you helped people. That was the way it should be done, rather than knocking on doors. Now I was blessed in that point. The pastor that we had at that church was about as amazingly good as you can get within the limitations of a fundamentalist. He was really a nice, loving guy.

But that was not received well. A guy took me before the pastor. I’ll never forget this. He looked angry. He said that I should be teaching about righteousness and judgment, not about love. And he had this disdain on his face. And I was like, “What? I mean, God is Love. That’s about as basic as black and white. Look in the Hebrew or look in the Greek!” So I like what you are saying because you are talking about living it out.

Now, as you are talking, I am pondering. You see, I’ve got Ra’s words in the background of my mind and I am pondering them over again. I have studied Greek, Hebrew and the Bible. I am seeing that you have Jesus, who was fourth-density positive. He came down here and broke through the veil, got remembrance, and gave us a human example of someone who was living fourth-density positive. In other words, he came down through the veil, and lived it, and did it, as opposed to someone who is sending the information in, we’ll say, via the channel.

It is not that the channel is bad. It is just that it is impressive for the being to get off his duff, and come down in the mess, and do it. So one thing I got from reading the Ra Material was that it seemed as though the Ra group did not agree with Jesus’ choice to come here. They felt that it was a choice of love without wisdom. In other words, they felt it was foolish.

Carla: Yes, they thought that. That didn’t mean they were judging him for it. They just said that in absolute love lies folly, in terms of looking at it from the idea of wisdom. And if Jesus had wanted to, he could have avoided going to Jerusalem. He could have avoided the cross. He could have wandered over to Kashmir and taught for twenty years. And there are people who say that is what he did. But in truth, along with the folly that the crucifixion may have been, at the same time, it got everybody’s attention.

Jancik: Yes, I look at that folly, and I go, “You know what? That was brilliant!” Because it wasn’t a situation like Ron Paul’s being ignored by the press, where there was a whole movement to get a lot of money so that Paul could be shown on the news in the hopes that Paul’s words will break through the matrix, which doesn’t want people to know that lots of people like him, because he is not one of the group.

When Jesus let himself be crucified, it sure got a lot of people’s attention! Perhaps the way he did it wasn’t so foolish and lacking in wisdom. Perhaps it was a rather good way, unpleasant though it may have been. To leave and go to Kashmir and teach for twenty years would have been more of a service-to-self maneuver, if you ask me. However no one has come to put me on a cross, so maybe I cannot make that judgment. But you see my point. I really appreciate the human who comes down and actually does it and lives it and not just has it in a book or has it be theoretical. He lived positive polarity to the nth degree, even unto death.

Carla: Yes, and I think that we all, if we attempt seriously to be of service to others in a pure and dedicated fashion, will find ourselves inconvenienced, sometimes tremendously. And that is part of it, that sacrifice is part of being of positive polarity.

Jancik: OK, well hold on there, we are going to come back, we’ll have the last segment in the last half hour of the show. Boy times flies! I knew this interview was going to fly by! We’ll be back after this break. The phone lines will be open if you want to sneak a question in. I have a bunch still here so I can keep going. If you want to join the fun, go ahead. We’ll be back right after this.

(Pause)

Jancik: We are back and live. We are talking with Carla Rueckert and Jim McCarty of L/L Research. I appreciate you being here with us.

Basically, we are learning that from this moment on, we can literally be both in control and relaxed and letting go at the same time. There is that balance, kind of riding the wave through this and riding up and on and through fourth density.

Carla: Right, that play is very important. There is a part of you that is definitely controlling and you are trying to remember to stay in a state of remembrance of who you are and why you’re here. And on the other hand life happens, and it happens quickly, and you need to be loose and paying attention to the very heart of the present moment.

I wonder if I could just take a minute and give some details of how people could look further if they’re interested in what I’m saying.

Jancik: Oh absolutely!

Carla: You gave our address earlier, which is www.llresearch.org. I have a blog on there, I have a UPI weekly article that you can find by going to that site and there are about fifteen hundred channeling sessions which are downloadable for free, not only the Ra sessions but [also] my conscious channeling through a thirty year period.

As well, if you’re interested in listening live to the channeling as it comes through, on BBS Radio on a Saturday night, they broadcast our channeling sessions every week. I think it’s on at ten o’clock on a Saturday and then 6 o’clock on Sunday morning—that’s to catch people on the other side of the globe that find it difficult to listen at the Saturday time. Please feel free to check us out. Come roost at our website and poke around and see what you might like there.

Now, back to your show, thanks for letting me say that!

Jancik: Well of course, I was going to go into that but I got engrossed in the material and then all of a sudden we’re at the end of the show and it’s, “Oh no!” Thanks for giving out your information. I encourage people to look into this. I’m not saying that Ra is 100% correct or that this is new doctrine.

Carla: Nor would we.

Jancik: Right, and that’s another thing that I was impressed with. You’re looking at it almost as if you are reading it from someone else. You’re detached and you’re looking at it, you’re going, “Yeah, that sounds right, but I don’t know about that …”

And to have a 3-D, human being actually sit and look at a 4-D entity’s statements and go, “Well, I don’t know about that.” I mean, that’s good! Because a lot of people would simply be intimidated by the fact that the Ra group is allegedly so high up there and what they say must be true, and, well, what do I know?

And yet you’re looking at it very scientifically yourself, saying, “Well, here is the way I look at it. Here is how it works for me.” And that’s good. That’s actually how I’ve done it. What impressed me about dealing with the Ra Material is that I could listen to it and certain aspects of it I thought really hit me strongly and I thought other parts did not resonate so much. This material is one of the things that has had the greatest impact on me since I studied the work in the Bible.

I don’t even look at the Bible as others do, it’s not like these magic words that came from Heaven. But it, too, was inspired and written down. And you have to take into consideration those who wrote it, and why, and those who copied it, and why, and those who translated it, and why.

That all being said, talking about the Ra Material, have you had to deal with people saying that this is from the devil and demons and that kind of thing? Have you had to battle that?

Carla: I’m really familiar with that because my brother was absolutely dedicated to getting me to stop channeling. It was only after a 23-year period that I finally just told him that he was going to have to stop having the same conversation over and over because I just couldn’t take it anymore.

So I’m really familiar with people judging the work. And what I say is, “Hey, if it’s not for you than move on. I have nothing to prove. That would be fine with me. Don’t worry about it at all. Just go on. There are tons of other very inspiring sources out there for you to study. But if something about the Ra Material or the Q’uo channeling or the Confederation channels in general captures your attention, then by all means, explore and see how it fits.”

As a mystical Christian I can say with absolute sincerity that this Confederation channeling material has really helped me in my walk, and it’s a walk in Christ. Just to give you an idea of how completely capacious the Law of One material or the Confederation material is, in the context of trying to make me more comfortable as a channel when I was doing this, the Ra group instructed Don and Jim to build me an altar, to put on it a Bible opened at the Gospel of John, first chapter first verse, you know, “In the Beginning was the Word,” - the Logos is the word John used, talking about the nature of love -and a candle and incense, all the things that warm my Episcopalian heart.

And at one point, Don asked, “Well, you’re so narrow-band and you’re so concerned about keeping clear energy in here, should Carla take her cross off?” And they said, “No, it does distort the incoming vibrations a bit, but on the other hand she needs that cross.”

There is no prejudice in the Law of One material against any walk in faith. What the Law of One material, and the Confederation material in general, does is help you to think about spiritual subjects that aren’t talked about much in the context of regular society, and certainly not talked about in a sensible, down-to-earth way, where there is not a lot of distortion because of belief systems and dogma. So, to me it is an extremely helpful source of spiritually helpful information.

Jancik: When I listen to it, I don’t look at it as an authoritative source, but I find truth in it and that’s why I was able to kind of go shopping if you will and I didn’t find contradiction as much as I found the phrasing to perhaps be in another way. I already brought up the aspect in Ra’s commentary about Jesus not being very smart. That kind of let me know, assuming the channel was clear, that even in higher dimensions you have disagreement amongst beings. Even if it is a whole planet that is united together, there are different perspectives that people can take. There is still a personality, if you will.

Now we have a question that is coming into the chat room. This is going to be more of a nuts-and-bolts thing. You said that the beings left sixth density from Venus. The question is, “Why did they leave Venus”.

Jim: The population of Ra had reached a state of awareness where they felt they could be of more service, I guess you could say, to the solar system as a whole by joining what we see as the Sun and by taking up residence here. They are able to create what we see as light in their act of procreation, they. So they felt that they could of more service by leaving Venus and becoming residents of the Sun.

Carla: And also, they call themselves the Brothers and Sisters of Sorrow. They say that they are a brotherhood and a sisterhood that has banded together because they hear the call of Earth and it is the call of great sorrow. It is the call of those who do not know love and who are seeking love.

And so they wanted to come among us and help us to lighten the planet. And they tried coming among us as their sixth-density selves, according to Ra, at the time of the Egyptians, and found that everything that they offered, the pyramid and so forth, as soon as Akhenaton died, the priests immediately decided that the pyramids were not for initiating all the people. The pyramids were for rich people only.

So they realized that they wouldn’t be able to come among us in their sixth-density form. And so they decided the only thing they really could do was communicate to those who were seeking the truth through channels such as myself. And they’ve been doing that ever since. But they said that they were glad to find Don, Jim, and me, because they had been looking for a couple of hundred years for a good channel for their material. So they just basically are voices on the wind and I think helpful ones.

Jancik: My personal thing about finding truth is that no one person has truth. There are bits of it lying all over the place and they interlock and correlate. There is going to be contradiction because people kind of have a biased or colored perspective or they have fear or whatever. But there is going to be all this correlation.

One of the things that Maurice Cotterell, [7] talked about when he was on my show is that when he studied these ancient religions and so forth, that he literally looked at the sun as being a “deity” that gave out the energy to the solar system. And in listening to the Ra Material, the sun would be an eighth-density being, if I’m correct.

Carla: They call it the sub-Logos, as a matter of fact. It is the stepped-down Creator.

Jancik: Right. And what we see is the third slice, if I can use that term, of an 8-D being. So although we may look at Venus and go, “There’s nothing there! It’s all hot and burning.” But we’re only seeing the 1, 2 and 3-D slices of it. If we saw the 4-D slice of it, it would look different. And 5-D, et cetera. And we look at the sun and we go, “Wait a minute, people are living on the sun?” But when you actually see the sun in higher densities, it becomes, energetically, less of a fiery furnace if you will.

Carla: And more of light. Less of heat and more of light. Yes.

Jancik: So it seems to me, maybe it just doesn’t click with others, but it just made sense then when we look at Venus, for instance, we look at it in a 3-D perspective [and ask], “What is it there for? To be a white light in the sky?” It’s kind of dumb. I’ve always wondered why all these plants were here that are all dead, toxic chemicals. They look pretty but that’s about it, and yet it makes more sense that in various densities they are quite functional as far as life and pursuit of happiness.

Carla: And it goes on and on and on, through many of the illusions.

Jancik: And you can’t prove that. I can’t go, “Well, take a fourth-density picture and then bring it back.” You can’t prove it. It’s one of those things you’ll have to find out for yourself. I have found that for me that truth resonates. I don’t know how to explain it other than when I hear truth, I go, “That’s true!” And when I ponder it a bit, I’ll find correlations somewhere.

Carla: Yes, I think that the path of resonance is what we all need to follow. We need to trust ourselves. We all have good discrimination and we sense that path of resonance. And when we get excited about something we should go there and move on that.

Jancik: In fact, my personal mission, if I could be so bold as to start to define it, is to focus on only what matters because in a matter of, we’ll say, years, this is all going to be a moot place. We are not going to be worrying about it. That is the reason I don’t worry about the octaves and what happens. I go,” Man, we are right here at the end of an age, a very important time both collectively and, more importantly, individually.”

I mean, that stuff about the various aspects is fascinating but what hit me more in the Ra Materials was, “OK, what do we do now? How do I make sure I grow enough into 4-D to make the transition as peaceful as possible? How can I help others? What can I stop doing that I think is helping others that is really hurting others?”

Carla: Yes. I’m working on a book right now that’s called Living the Law of One 101: The Choice. It runs through the basic principles of the Law of One material and ends with taking a really good look at the energy body. There is a lot of material in Confederation channelings and especially the Ra Material about the energy body and how our physical body takes life from the form-maker or the energy body, and so I take a look at each chakra or energy center in that body and talk about issues that are brought up by that energy and how we as spiritual seekers can work with these energies and use them in a way that will keep us awake on every point and aware that we want to keep the heart open more than anything. Everything stems from the open heart.

Hopefully it’s a book that anybody can read, I’ve aimed at a seventh-grade reading level and a high school education in the writing. That is all that you need to read this book. So Aunt Susie and George the mechanic and whoever, if they want to know about these principles, they can find out.

Making the choice is something we do every moment of our lives. I like to think of ourselves as making the choice to be secret agents of love. So often, it’s not what you say; it’s how you say it. It’s not whether you say the right thing but whether it’s coming from the heart. And sometimes just a smile at somebody that is down is going to lift that person up and infect them with a feeling of a loving heart. That is really what it is all about. It is not anything big and complex although you can certainly get complex talking about the cosmology put forth in the material. But the heart of it is that we are all one and that one thing is love.

Jancik: That’s the thing I’ve been saying. If we call for the heads of our leaders to be put on a platter for what they are doing, for example, we are using the same energy that they are using. So there is no righteous anger in a strict sense.

Carla: Exactly. In fact I’m rather grateful that the leaders right now are being so clearly service-to-self because their bad example is so clear. People can take the meaning from that, if they want to look at it in that spiritual sense. It’s very simple to get that there are some negative ideas that are going down right now that aren’t serving us.

Jancik: You know we are getting close to the end here and there is one thing that I want to ask you. One of the things that was mentioned in The Law of One was that the negatively polarized, service-to-self being would tend to be in better physical condition and have nicer surroundings and what have you, because they would care more about themselves. Whereas people, wanderers or others who are more positively oriented, might be perhaps living in poorer condition because they are worried about others and not themselves. And I found that kind of fascinating. It never dawned on me before. And as soon as I heard it I went, “Yeah, I can see loving people around me who could have lived in better conditions or even healthier conditions but have chosen no to because they’re more worried about their service.”

And yet look at the faith healers who have thousands of dollars of gold hanging from their necks and the people who are coming to have them heal them are selling everything they have to get there.

Perhaps if there is something that may come to mind, that you might want to feel moved to share with us, we’ve got about four minutes.

Carla: Jim? No? OK.

I guess that the very heart of the principles of the Law of One is the heart. It is so incredibly obvious to anyone who thinks about the finer things of life or value in life that truly the heart and genuine love, sincere and genuine love, is probably the treasure of this Earth and the finest thing that is available.

And fortunately it’s available in every cell of our bodies. It’s available in every cell of our minds and our thoughts. It’s completely and totally, at all times, the only thing that keeps us in the precincts of love at all times. There is the distraction of so many things that do not seem lovely! And it is a characteristic of life that it will hit us with everything but love, it seems like, some days more so than others.

So there is a real value to getting really quiet, at least once a day, and letting it all fall away except the very essence of self. And if you really penetrate into the essence of yourself, you discover that you really are a creature of love. And as you let it all fall away, as you empty your mental pockets and your emotional pockets and get down to the bare essence of consciousness itself, you discover that you are suddenly bathed in this wonderful joy and peace and power that’s just radiating all around you. And it’s like you’ve been let into your own heart.

There is an old hymn that says, “Oh Jesus, thou art standing outside the fast-closed door.” [8] But you know, Jesus isn’t the one standing outside the door. Jesus, or unconditional love, or Christ Consciousness, however you want to say that, is in our hearts, in every cell of our bodies. And so all we need to do, really, is take away the distractions and the things that aren’t really a part of us and get down to what’s really who we are. And once we get to that place of simplicity and we just knock and say, “I want to come into this place of love,” suddenly we’re there! And it’s a wonderful place to be and it’s very real. I think it’s the most real place I’ve ever been in my life.

Jancik: That’s why “they” offer the distractions, to keep us out of our hearts. But when you get past those distractions, all there is, is love.

Carla: Yes, so once you actually get that and have a first-hand experience of that, just once will do it. Then you can remember that. I try to tell myself, “Remember, remember, remember.” I think that’s really important to tune your life. Because we are all receivers and senders of vibration. We have tremendous power. So we have the ability to radiate that unconditional love that’s pouring through us at all times and letting that just shine. As John Lennon said, “We all shine on.” [9]

Jancik: Well, Carla and Jim, I appreciate you spending the time! You could have been here another four hours as far as I’m concerned. I appreciate it. We gotta go! It’s www.llresearch.org, and then, once you go there you can branch out on everything. Once again I appreciate your work and taking the time to share it with us.

Carla: It’s so good of you to have us, James.

Jim: Thank you, James.

 

[1] The material to which I refer is The Brown Notebook. You can view this material on our archive web site at this address: www.llresearch.org/origins/origins_toc.aspx.

[2] David Wilcock’s official web site is www.divinecosmos.com.

[3] This large work is an older “spirit communication.” The official web site is www.urantia.org.

[4] Laura Knight Jadczyk’s work can be found on her web site, www.cassiopaea.org.

[5] The Tibetan Book of the Dead: First Complete Translation, edited by Graham Coleman, Thupten Jinpa and Yurme Dorje: London, Penguin Classics Deluxe Edition, [c2007].

[6] This is part of the chorus of an old spiritual which Elvis Presley made popular in the 1950s in the mainstream culture. The words to the chorus are:

You’ve got to walk that lonesome valley
Well you gotta go by yourself
Well there ain't nobody else gonna go there for you
You gotta go there by yourself.

[7] Cotterell’s web site is mauricecotterell.com.

[8] The first verse of this hymn, written in 1799 by J. H. Knecht, goes like this:

O Jesus, thou art standing
Outside the fast-closed door,
In lowly patience waiting
To pass the threshold o’er.

Shame on us, Christian brothers,
His name and sign who bear,
O shame, thrice shame upon us,
To keep him standing there.

[9] The chorus to John Lennon’s song of that title goes,

And we all shine on
Like the moon and the stars and the sun
Well, we all shine on.

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