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Carla’s Niche


Interview with Carla by Denise Wilbanks

March 6, 2014

Denise Wilbanks – Interviewer

Denise: Hello everyone, this is Denise Wilbanks and I’m joined once again by Carla Rueckert, the channel for the Law of One - Ra Material and also author of Living the Law of One 101. Thank you, Carla, for joining me from your home. Tell us a little bit about what’s been happening in your life since last time—how are you feeling?

Carla: Well, my progress is slow, but it’s very clear that the wound that the doctors left that would not heal for so long is beginning to close now, and I’m so happy to announce that it’s really happening. I’m really going to be able to have one whole body soon, and I can’t wait to take my first bath.

Denise: And I’ve also been seeing on the website that you’re starting to walk a little bit.

Carla: Yes. I’m kind of my own worst enemy there in that I’m so enthusiastic, like for instance at Christmas time I sat up too much for too long and I got so much arthritis that my body just froze up. And there I was back to zero and not walking at all, so now I’ve started walking again. I’m up to one whole lap a day. Jim walks backwards and I walk forwards talking to him.

Denise: That’s like dancing.

Carla: We have our own little dance and we try to do it the same every day and so far, so good. It’s all good news.

Denise: Well, Carla, we’ve had such a success with the last recording. I don’t know if you’ve visited the Youtube, but we’re upward of a thousand views which, to me, is great. I thought it was such a wonderful interview that we would take advantage and see if we could follow up on some of the concepts. One of the concepts that I ran into and has really gone bing-bing-bing-bing, with bells on, because I think this is sort of the core, in my opinion, and obviously everyone sees the Law of One through their own perspective and view, but in my opinion, this is really where it’s at, and with your permission I’d like to read the—I’m going to skip the question that Don asked, because I think the answer from Ra was just so complete in and of itself and so it says:

“I am Ra. We grasp from your questions that you realize that the primary mechanism for catalyst or catalyptic experience in third density is other self. The list of other catalytic influences firstly, the Creators universe; secondly, the other self; and third, the self.”

I think I read that correctly and for those who might want to pinpoint it, it’s located on page 49 of Book II [of The Ra Material]. And so what I take away from that is, and obviously I want your opinion, but why it was so invigorating to find it, was because it reminded me of some of my own experiences when you come in contact with other people who, voila! all of the sudden you weren’t expecting to have a reaction to something and you reacted to life, or to someone’s anger, or to someone’s joy, and obviously it created some sort of a wall where you bumped up against and you say “Okay, here it is, my opportunity to make a choice to be of service, to cave in, to open up my heart, and so forth. So I kind of wanted to hear your comments on what your experiences have been or if you have any story you’d like to share about how this falls in place.

Carla: Well, actually, the thing that has changed my life the most is a story that is so weird and so far out that I almost hesitate to share it with you, but it is very central to me.

When I was 13, my kidneys failed, and at that time in 1956 the doctors really didn’t know how to fix that—they didn’t have any of the technology that they have now. There was no coming back. You either just lived or died and they just had to stand back and wait and see what your body did. So for two weeks my kidneys didn’t do anything and I died for about a couple of minutes. My heart wasn’t beating, there was no pulse, and I left this reality and was immediately in another reality. In this [new] reality I no longer had any pain and I was so happy, and I realized that I was “dead,” but I knew all my friends were waiting in this temple that was over the hill and I just had to walk over to that temple, so I started up the hill towards the temple—it was on the other side of the hill and I could just see the dome over the hill, and I was walking towards that temple. It was such an unusual—it was like walking from black and white into color in terms of how all the colors were suddenly moving and living and flowing—they sort of sparked in the air. Everything that made any noise—the wind in the trees and what not, it sort of sparkled in the air and I could sort of hear a very very soft but beautiful music in the far, far distance. I don’t know what that was but it also sparkled. Then I heard kind of a voice-over and this voice spoke to me out of nowhere with lots of sparkles, and said: “Well Carla (I don’t remember exactly, but this is the sense of it)—we don’t usually do this for people but we’re going to give you a choice. You chose far too much catalyst for one incarnation and so your body has not been able to hold up under it. Now here’s what we’ll offer: you can either go back into this incarnation with the body that you’ve got, knowing that it’s fragile and you’ll always have problems with it and try to complete both parts of your mission, or you can split the mission into two and you can come back twice—one incarnation for that part and another incarnation for this part.”

I thought back over my childhood and how difficult it had been and how very difficult it had been in terms of dealing with my parents and trying to please them and never really quite making it. There was always something wrong with everything I did. So I tried and tried and tried and never quite made it. It was very difficult and since I was very bright, I was different, much different, from most people. I was a very religious little girl and felt that I knew Jesus personally; that he had been part of my magic forest when I was a little kid. I would go into this place and there would be Jesus and I held his hand and looked into his eyes. He would never say anything, I would just look into his glowing golden eyes and I would know what love was. All I wanted to do was follow that love and be part of it and serve it and serve that man. My mother told me she never told me about Jesus; I told her. So my belief in Jesus is very personal and has nothing to do with the bible or anything like that, it has to do with my experiences as a little tike.

So anyway, those relationships that you’re talking about, I could never succeed in forming any with anybody, because everyone thought I was so different and so peculiar so I was just rejected. I was a loner, not because I wanted to be but because I did not succeed in making friends no matter how hard I tried. I can remember asking one girl “why don’t you like me?” She just looked at me and said “I don’t know.” There was no energy between me and any other person to form a relationship. So when I was 13 I was looking back over a very difficult childhood and I thought “I don’t want two more of those.” (laughter). So let’s go back in and give it the best shot I’ve got. If the body is fragile, well the body is fragile, so I said I wanted to go back. As soon as I thought that (of course, this was all mental) Bam! I was back in my body. My body started up again and the first thing I can remember is looking up in my hospital bed and seeing doctors and nurses leaning over me trying to help me.

It took me about two months to recover at all and it took another three months at home before I could go back to school, but I survived and I knew from that moment that my life had changed completely because I knew I had a job to do and I knew that it had something to do with love—I didn’t know what, but my whole life had been about love, so it had to be about love. So I just wanted to serve so much and every day of my life it was desiring to serve and worshipping, being so glad I was in this creation, I was so joyful to be here. I went from being a sad little girl to being a very happy little girl. I grew up very fast and my life kept changing for the better and I started making relationships one after the other, and now I have relationships that started way back in high school that I still keep up with.

It took that experience elsewhere for me to gain the confidence in myself and the knowledge of myself—okay, this is where you are—you are here (make a little arrow) and whatever happens you are on the job. All you need know is that you are on the job and it will all come—it will all just come. I was sure of that for some reason and it has, in its own way, come for the last many, many years.

So that is the central story of my unusual life. Now I can talk about other relationships that have changed my life, but this one was the central one so we can start from here and go outwards.

Denise: So it sounds as though the result of this life-changing experience was that you took a completely different outlook, not just about yourself and how your life was, but how you were going to be and behave, so to speak, in this lifetime, and that you had some sort of contribution to how you were relating to others.

Carla: Well, I realized that every single person that my life touched was a gift to me. So my job was to see if I could help…

Denise: Let me stop you right there because I think that you couldn’t have hit the nail on the head any more accurately, and that’s the part that I see as well. But it’s something that is rather difficult for most people to see. How is it that I can see that everyone in my life is vital to me and is a gift when I don’t like you because you make me do homework? Or, I don’t like you because you make me angry. Obviously nobody can make you angry, it’s a choice, but that’s how the mind constructs it. How is it that we can shift from point A to point B if you’re just wearing this veil of preconceived notion that anger happens from out there and I’m not responsible, they toss it on to me? So you see what I’m saying? It’s hard to see on a day-to-day basis what catalyst even is. If we can’t stop for a minute and say, “Wait a minute, where is this anger really coming from. Did they cause it?”

Carla: And of course they didn’t. It’s like everybody in the universe is a mirror to us. Now if we’re all one, and we’re truly one being, and we’re all constructed of one love, then everybody else is much like us and they are reflecting ourselves to us. Why did we get angry at that person and not somebody else? What was it—it might be road rage, it might be the person cut me off in traffic and it’s perfectly obvious why it happened. That doesn’t take too much thought. But when you hit somebody that just irritates you and every time you’re with that person they irritate you, then either you let that be or you realize, “Oh, this person is showing me some part of myself that I don’t want to look at. I haven’t worked on this yet, let’s take a good look at it and see what it’s all about.” Then that person becomes a gift—a soul that has given you that gift of knowledge about yourself. So you work on that—“Ok, why did she irritate me,” until you begin to understand, “Oh, I remember, back when I was a kid, there was a situation in which there was a lot of pain and I’ve buried it and I’m going to have to dig that up—I’m going to have to look at it again and I’m going to have to forgive it.” I’m going to have to move from judgment to forgiveness. So that is what that person is helping me to do, is delineating and making clear the path in that particular way of how I’m going to get from judgment to forgiveness of myself, not just the other person but mostly myself.

So if you start out with the assumption that people either irritate you or they don’t, then they’re just pawns in the game, they don’t mean a lot. But if you start out with the realization that all these people are souls and that that’s the highest that you can possibly be in the great democracy of eternity is a soul. We are human beings and we can create our choices and move on. This is how we move on. We move on because we get to know ourselves more and more and we forgive ourselves more and more and that makes it possible for us to see other people from the standpoint of compassion and forgiveness and not get caught up in irritability or anger or whatever. But it takes work on our part before we get to the point where we can relax and let all that go and just be ourselves and be forgiven and then other people are forgiven too. Everybody’s forgiven.

Denise: Absolutely, and what I find is that, particularly in my younger days, not so much now but in my younger days I was more resistant. I was more reluctant to do any kind of work. There’s always this excuse: “Well, I can do that tomorrow.” Or “That just takes too much thinking.” And so, like myself, there are many out there who keep putting it off. Procrastination obviously is our Achilles Heel, and that was one thing that I have as a great concern at this stage in my life where I want to help others get on with it—not to wait until tomorrow—get a grip. As I remember in one of your other Youtubes you talk about how Ra defines that little spot of indifference where the great majority of us are not either falling into the 51% category for positive polarity or the 95% category for negative polarity—we’re just vacillating in the middle, and so my thinking is how to open the door. How can we make this, how can we spark an interest for this kind of work, and so that was why I had this desire to orient the conversation in that direction. So how in the past have you made it—or have you found anything in the past that has made you say, “Okay, I’m going to hold my feet to the fire.” Is there anything that has helped you or aided you that says “Okay, it’s now or never.”

Carla: Well, dreams have helped me. For instance, I had a starter marriage. It went from when I was 25 to 29 and you’d think that I would have had more feelings against this fellow, but he had done the best he could, he was just a jerk. He couldn’t really help not growing up yet and he didn’t grow up until he grew up. He couldn’t finish school, he wouldn’t work, I supported him the four years we were married even though as soon as we were divorced he went and got a job making three times what I had been making. He just went onward from there to being a very wealthy fellow, a self-made man and he’s probably a millionaire by now. I have lost touch with him, but actually what happened was, of course, I cried and I felt a lot of mourning when we broke up. Then I had this dream and in the dream I saw him—I was running towards this little cabin that was sort of a honky tonk cabin in the wilderness the way you sometimes see if you’ve ever wandered in Eastern Kentucky. There’s a roadhouse by a little tiny road and there’s a bar in it, but it’s just sort of a meeting place. People go there to visit and catch up and so forth, and I was running toward this little cabin that was a store/bar, whatever, and I saw him come out on the front porch of this cabin and he had one of those detonators in his hand and he gets this mad look in his eyes, and plunges the plunger down and when he does this, everything in the cabin explodes into flowers—all the bar seats, the bar, along the floor, everything is flowers—the ceiling, the walls, it’s absolutely beautiful—all different colors of flowers. Then I woke up and sat and thought about it and I realized I was free for the first time in four years and my life can bloom again. I worked on it for a while before I got to that conclusion but again, it was a matter of shifting my attitude and opening my heart so that I wasn’t so self-involved and I opened up to life and all of the sudden good things began to happen to me.

Denise: It’s so true. I’m not lucky enough to remember many of my dreams so I have to work a little harder at it in the more objective style, so let me share with you real quick what I’ve done that might be helpful to those out there that might not be lucky enough to remember their dreams like you. One thing, and this is not so much a story as much as it is just a little tool, a little technique… One thing I’ve found that was very helpful to me was to become aware of my self language—deprecating language and so forth. But, as you were saying, we lock ourselves into that negative energy and it’s difficult to create a shift when you’re contracted—like you say, negative energy is protracted, positive polarity you open up and you’re ready to receive, so what I’ve started doing is becoming aware of inner dialogue like “I have to.” If you think in terms of “I have to,” then you’re giving up the first distortion of free will. You’re “I have to,” is almost a demand upon yourself and your mind constructed as if it’s an outside source saying you “you have to.” “I have to do laundry.” No, I don’t have to do laundry, I can play hooky all day long if I want to, but my children won’t have clean clothes. So what I found is that if I go from “I have to,” to “I want to,” then you’ve created an automatic shift, and so that’s sort of what I’ve found to be very helpful, just little things like that that I can catch myself in the moment and say, “What a minute—where am I going with this; how am I treating myself in that moment when I have to or else…because our mind makes up all these things about…

Carla: It really does. I can remember one time I was doing the dishes and it was a sunny day outside; there was a window over the sink and I was looking out the window and my heart was opening just because it was a pretty day, and all of the sudden I heard the dish that I was washing, and the dish was saying “You’re really doing me. This is great—I’m really going to get so clean, this is so great.” And the dish was happy. (Laughs) Sounds crazy, but Ra talks about everything being an honor/duty, or a duty/honor, so if you look at everything as a duty/honor, the honor kind of gets buried and everything’s a duty—“I ought to do, I should do, I must do, oh, oh,” then you start thinking, “well, wait a minute. Isn’t it my honor to do this? Isn’t this great that I have these people to help, these people in my life that I would never have the chance to do all these things I get to do?” When you’re in a family, yes, it’s tough to do the chores, but on the other hand, how great to do those chores and get everything ready for your babies, or that good man who is trying so hard to build a life with you. When you relate to things with the honor/duty, oh, what an honor it is really. And that feels good and it makes everything kind of shine, even if you look at a messy room and it needs to be cleaned up, but there are things that need to be done—you need to collect the laundry, you need to collect the dishes, you need to run the vacuum cleaner, you need to run the duster. There are things you need to do to bring it back up to your old standards, and you do have standards you know—you like to live in a clean place, you like to have clean clothes, and so forth, so when you are approaching from the position of it being an honor, then you sort of have the energy to attack it with verve and put a good piece of music on that expresses your viewpoint and clean up the house while you’re dancing…

Denise: Well, then you are certainly shifting the paradigm of your energy level to being more in keeping with, a sense of honor and duty and privilege and do it—I like to look at it as sort of an underlying reason—“Well, why is it that I’m doing it? Well, I’m doing it because I love my family and I want them to have a nice place to live in, or clean clothes, or hot food on the table, or whatever it is, if I’m providing and working hard, well, I don’t like working overtime, or late, or I have no life—that’s the negative side, but I’m doing it because I want to provide, so it’s just about shifting the paradigm of the energy and the energy in and of itself becomes the catalyst for “why am I doing this to begin with?”

Carla: Then there’s what you’re going to do with the people at work. I remember one job that I had—it was my first professional job and I was very proud to have gotten it, I was very young to be a librarian (I was 21) and I absolutely couldn’t stand this woman. She was a holdover from the early 20th Century and she had started the job two years before I was born and she’d never had an assistant in all of the 20-some years of her having this library. It was the _________ library at the University of Louisville, the Engineering Library and she’d never had an assistant, she didn’t know how to deal with an assistant and she was afraid of men. All we had in those days as engineering students was men. All we had for professors was men. She was afraid of men; she was in the wrong job. She would hide out in her office and I would do the visiting of all…I would interrelate with everybody for her. I was glad to do that but what drove you crazy was—she decided that an assistant should always answer the phone. Well, if I was a football field away reading shelves on a ladder and the phone rang in her office and I had to get over there to answer the phone, she would sit there with the phone ringing in front of her but she wouldn’t answer because that was my job. That was the kind of thing she would do. So I thought “What am I going to do?” Well, I decided that I was going to pretend that I loved her. I was going to just shower her with the best love that I had. And I did. I called her “Chief” which was a cute name from a TV show that was on then. Ninety-nine always called the spy “Chief” and so I called her “Chief” and she loved it. I just treated her well no matter what she did to me. I would smile and love her. Within a couple of weeks I began to notice that things were changing in the library and she started to love me back. And everything changed in that library and even though my job didn’t change and her craziness didn’t change, I was able to tolerate it with no problem whatsoever because I loved her. Because of the fact that I loved her I was able more and more to understand why she was so the way she was. She had no friends herself. She didn’t know how to make a friend. She was totally useless at any social skills and so my heart began to open toward her and I began to feel sorry for her and realized what a tough life she’d had just fighting her way and doing a good job in this library while being afraid of everybody she came in contact with all the time.

Denise: Gary said something in your radio show yesterday as something relevant to what you’re saying, and if I’m quoting him correctly, he said “love is a function of awareness,” and I so agree with that because in essence it’s what you said: you made a choice to love her no matter what and when you made that choice you started directing the energy. It’s almost like the Law of Attraction—wherever focus goes, energy flows, or something backwards, anyway, needless to say, you’re going to augment whatever direction of energy you’re putting into it. I think that it’s all a matter of becoming aware, and so going back to revisit the quote, where he says: “We grasp from this question that you realize that the primary mechanism for catalytic experience in the third density is other self.” Amen to that.

Carla: That’s right. So every person that comes into your life, everybody that comes into your life is potentially a total gift, and it’s up to you to make it so. Sometimes no matter how much you try you just can’t make a contact connection with that person, but if you don’t have anything stopping you—if you don’t have any voice in your head saying “I’m not doing this, I’m not worthy, I’m no good, I know I could do this better but I don’t know how,” all the inner voices that eat up all your energy, suck away all your energy, if you’ve been able to quiet those voices so that your attention is focused outward on those other people, then you’re going to be picking up—everybody’s got vibrations, so if you’re really in the moment and really—it’s very easy with you. You and I made a complete connection the first time that we met and it’s done nothing but get deeper and better and stronger since then. But with some people it’s just not as easy—they don’t get you and you don’t get them, but the first thing they can say is “there is no harm in her.” They can’t find any harm, they can’t find anything to really criticize, but there’s just no energy there, so if you can work until you make a connection with that energy, a genuine one, not low energy, so that you’re genuinely in contact with that person on that person’s level, then you’ve done the best you can—you’re open to whatever might happen.

Now, “how can I help?” That’s really the question that is uppermost in my mind when I meet someone, is “how can I help? How can I serve?” And sometimes it’s just being there that will help that person—the quality of your beingness. You wake a lot of people up so that they want to get this for themselves because they see what you’ve got and they think to themselves “how does she do that? I want that,” so I think a lot of people are just dragging in on your coattails and wanting to be like you or wanting to have your joy—wanting to have that quality of happiness that is escaping them completely. Then they’re around you and they feel good, they feel happy, they feel more and more relaxed the longer they’re around a group of people that’s—usually there’s a central person that is creating a good energy flow between everybody and so you find yourself wanting to go back and be part of that crowd. More and more you are able to take away that open heart because it’s reliable—it’s always there, so it’s something that at first, okay, you can’t do it at all, you leave that person and the connection is cut just like the end of a telephone call—that’s it—gone. Then after spending many times with that person or in that person’s flow, when you leave there’s a lingering energy that stays with you and you can keep your heart open a lot easier because you’re remembering how it was when you were with those folks.

Denise: Speaking of lingering energy, wouldn’t you say or would it be fair to say, that once you’ve opened up your heart, to put it in context of The Ra Material, to the green ray energy. Is that correct? Wouldn’t you say it’s just that energy lingering into the space?

Carla: Yes, it fills the space and I think really that’s what we’re here to do is find that within ourselves and to hold that space because our job is basically to lighten the consciousness of Planet Earth. How do you do that? Well, you hold that higher energy and make it possible for the things to flow in and out of this realm from higher realms. A good smile that opens the heart, also opens you to the realms of spirit that are within and are just waiting for you to let go, to feel good, and just let it all happen and not have “shoulds” and “ought tos” and just, “okay, what does this day hold for me” and get up and let’s hit it again and have that attitude towards each day. I think really it’s our positive responsibility to choose how we’re going to attack a day. We can choose to have a good day or a lousy day, and if something happens to upset us, we can choose to hold onto that or we can choose to get back where our hearts are open and we’re having a good day.

Denise: You just used a word that I like to break into two a lot. You just said “positive responsibility,” but the word “response-ability” is starts with “responds” so how am I able to respond to something or how am I going to respond with the ability to turn it into something else. So it’s like Gary—I caught onto that yesterday and I thought “Hurray for him bringing that out,” that love is a function of awareness, because it’s not until you fall into a sense of awareness through your own choices and responsibility that you open up to that energy of full potentiality and express love. I thought “right on.”

Carla: Yes, Gary has a lot of good things to say and I can’t encourage him enough really.

Denise: They both do. Austin does too and I’m so thrilled by the fact that they’re young, they’re in this upcoming generation and I hope to see them go out there and encourage those who are in their age group to come along and do some of this hard work internally and out into the world. It doesn’t move anywhere until it moves in here first.

Carla: Well, I think we have pondered and pondered how do you serve. How do you reach out? How can you reach more people than you’re reaching now? Because the Law of One is written in a very dense, difficult to read episodic style and there are lots of people—they’re most technically oriented, technologically oriented, a lot of them are guys, and they get it right off because Don was a physicist and the questions he was asking are the questions of a scientist and a physicist, and they’re following him right along, questions by question. Other people don’t really get everything but they feel the energy of the material somehow and they love it. And then there are the people that look at it and they go—“nothing,” and maybe something else is for them, but I tried writing “The Law of One 101” as a way for people who were having difficulty with the original material, to ease into it. It’s written in a very simple style for the regular person and I had a guy that taught English as a second language to read all my stuff after I’d written it to show me where I had mistakenly used words only used in college, and it’s “de-colleged.” That book is written for the average person that may not have even finished highschool. Hopefully it catches the heart of what the Ra group is trying to tell us.

I talk first about the distortions, free will, love, light, polarity. I try to show people how that works and I use stuff that people have seen in high school, like how an engine works, how a starter on an engine works, and what makes it go, what makes it click on. I was very careful—I think I got everything right—to use examples like that which are very low to the ground and straightforward and easy to understand. “Oh, okay, I get polarity, all right,” now what we’re talking about is how you use yourself to polarize, to do work. Okay, so then I very carefully sorted out—okay, this is the first ray. I went through the chakras one at a time; the red, orange, yellow, the whole rainbow of chakras we have in our body that connect us with our energy body or our spiritual body. It’s what we’re doing here. But until you realize—“I’m not just a person trying to have a spiritual experience, I’m a spirit trying to have a physical experience.” And I’m much more a spirit than a physical body. I’m a vessel. So I talked about how you can work with the red ray, the basic ray, that is your connection with how you feel about sexuality and survival—how you feel about living on Planet Earth—if you hate living on this earth then you’re not going to be able to do the work to bring yourself into positive polarity because you’ve blocked the energy that flows through your body so that it never gets to the heart.

Then the second chakra is the orange ray and it has to do with personal relationships like the relationship with yourself, relationships with others, a lover and/or friend. Then the yellow ray chakra has to do with your relationships that are contractual—your birth family, your marriage family, work, the team you root for, even a team that you’re rooting for it has—those guys have a contract, you can depend on them to show up for work because it is their work, it’s not just fun.

Denise: So I guess dependability would be the adjective, so to speak, that defines that particular chakra?

Carla: I guess. At any rate it’s those first three chakras that are below the heart chakra and that close up if you’re unhappy. If you’re unhappy in your marriage, then it closes up. Energy can’t get into your heart. If you’re unhappy with your lover, the energy closes up and can’t get through to the heart. So those three lower chakras basically constitute our outer work in this incarnation because In order to do work, our heart has to be open so that we can use ourselves to do work in consciousness. Everything is within. We’re looking for something out there but in truth, our work lies within ourselves to discipline our personality and do work in consciousness in order to polarize more and more. “How can I help? How can I help? How may I serve? How may I love you?” It’s not a duty “How may I serve?” It’s like a joy—“How may I serve you, please let me serve you.” And keeping your heart open and having that attitude is everything. It will help you do the work.

Denise: Can you tell me a little bit about the personal—I know that Ra, and I’ve not personally covered it because like I said I read the book in a meandering way, but I know that here and there I’ve seen the “archetypes”, or something to the effect of archetypes. Can you briefly touch upon that?

Carla: Okay. In the fourth book, when Don asked a lot about everything, he was searching for where to go, and he said “What can I do to talk about the magical personality, to talk about the disciplines of the personality.” That really interested him and, of course, it interested all of us. And he said “I want to learn more about that. How can I learn more about the disciplining of the personality?” So Ra said there are basically three ways that you can learn about the very deep part of your soul, soul body, mind/body/spirit, of your consciousness—the roots of consciousness, what Carl Jung would call the roots of consciousness. He said you can use the stars and astrology because that is very set; you can study the east star and where it was when you were born, and so forth, and that is very valid. Or you can study Western magic—you can study the glyph of the Tree of Life. That’s what the mystical Jewish religion is all about. The Tree of Life glyph is that which describes who we are, and where each characteristic lies in the Tree of Life—is it feminine, is it masculine, is it in the middle.

Denise: So what Carl Jung did—the animus and the anima—

Carla: Right. He was trying to get down into the roots of consciousness. So then Ra said you could study the court cards of the tarot—there are 22 of them and you could try to study the seven tarot cards for the body, the mind and the spirit, and then there’s one called “The Fool” which relates to all three. So after a lot of talking, nobody really felt that they had the ability to do astrology—we hadn’t done astrology; none of us had gone far enough into the magical study that constitutes white Western ritual magic that we felt we could do the Tree of Life, so we decided that we would try the tarot. We didn’t know a thing about the tarot and the court cards, but it turned out that there was an Egyptian tarot and so we actually went to the Library of Congress to find a suitable deck of the court cards, and we found those that we have used in the book.

So Ra sorted out those into seven court cards for the mind, seven for the body, and seven for the spirit and we studied those of the mind first and that’s as far as we got before Don died. So it was a wonderful journey that was well begun and then it stopped through no fault of anybody but we could go no further. It’s fascinating to look at the implications of the various parts of the tarot and the implications that were left like little trails of suggestion for those things that Ra didn’t have a chance to get into, having to do with the body and the spirit, because he just did the mind. But there were comments and so forth. So it’s a fascinating study—in April we’re actually going to have—you can get on our site at and find information on a gathering that we’re going to have this April to discuss the archetypes of Ra. There’s a fellow that has been studying them for years and he’s an excellent philosopher and we’re so honored to have him. He’s going to lead the discussion but not take it over. It’s going to be a regular discussion but he’s going to guide it and he’s going to share his own discoveries so far in his own studies of the tarot, so this April—I’m thinking it’s from the 8th to the 11th, and it’s going to be on a farm that one of the members of L&L Research has and she offered to hold this gathering so it’s going to be a lot of fun. We’ll pick food from her garden and we’ll have bonfires at night and a wonderful discussion during the day.

So that’s one of our gatherings; the other gathering that we’re going to have, by the way, is a gathering having to do with healing work. What is it to balance yourself and how do you go about doing that. Where are you out of balance, and this woman is a medical intuitive and she is able to work with you and help you discover your own personal places where you might want to become more in balance. She’s going to be teaching a weekend late in March.

Denise: I would love to come to that.

Carla: And that’s going to be held right here in Louisville at…

Denise: What is her name?

Carla: Beatriz Gonzalez.

Denise: I used to follow the work of Carolyn Mace, who is also a medical intuitive.

Carla: Yes, I’m aware of her work and it’s wonderful. But this woman’s work is wonderful too. She’s had thirty years of her own work as a medical intuitive and then she read The Ra Material and she just flipped because it was so much in keeping with her own studies, and she was able to incorporate the Law of One, and especially the balancing exercise, into her own work. So she teaches that—the combination of the two and she does a lot of work with each person, one on one, as well as teaching in the group. I think it’s going to be wonderful and yes, please do sign up, it’s not full yet. Just look on

Denise. Yes, is that the one where Jim does your daily—where he tells what you did each day? Yes, I keep up with that.

Carla: And Fox every day gives a quote from our material…

Denise: Fox?

Carla: Her name is Fox H. You wouldn’t have heard of her She’s a weaver but she’s not famous. But at any rate she loves the material and so every day she puts a little quotation on the home page of bring4th to spark people’s interest and if you click on it, then you can read the whole session. So it’s like you said—it starts a person meandering, wandering through the material—I think that’s the best way.

Denise: It is. Obviously sometimes there is some repetition because you end up falling back on something you’ve already read once before and because there is no order, you’re kind of, oops, wait a minute, but needless to say, also, depending on how you put your search parameter, it could make it to where it jumps but the nice thing about it is you could click on that number and take you to the original session where you see a sequential order of how the question was played out and what consecutive questions came after so even though you’re kind of missing some of the context over here you can still refer to it over there.

Carla: Yes, you can. The guys are working hard on sorting things out so that when people want to look at what there is on say, free will, or the open heart or whatever you’re wanting to look for. “How do I deal with suicide?” So they’re working on making things in a more orderly way so that searching is so much easier and I know that they’re close to doing that.

You wanted to keep this within an hour and a half and we’ve only got 15 more minutes and you’ve never told me your story yet.

Denise: Well, I have so many, which one would you like? (Laughter) But I did tell you one—I don’t know if you got to read the little email that I sent you.

Carla: Yes, I did, and thank you very much for that.

Denise: That was an incredible story because here I was, like you said, you are all puffed up, gather my courage and made a beautiful little bouquet of flowers to take to Brinay Brown, I knocked on her door and I’m smiling and excited to hopefully get to meet her. This is a woman—I don’t know if you saw her video on Youtube but this is a woman that to me screams: “I’m a wanderer and I’m here to just lighten up the world and she does it with such fun—she’s fun; she starts singing on stage and she’s just really fun to watch, and the body of her work has been so incredible, it has to do with shame and vulnerability where vulnerability is the birth place of innovation and creativity. In offices where everybody is all stuffed up, well, we gotta keep order, and we gotta be just so, we gotta be kind of manly, we can’t show emotions—well you’re stifling creativity because vulnerability takes you there. That’s just a summation of her work and it’s really fantastic.

So I’m knocking at her door—it’s a Saturday—she answers the door and I’m handing her flowers and she looks out—I guess she was looking for a delivery vehicle, and she says to me, “where did these flowers come from?” In that moment, talk about catalytic, it’s like “pow”—it just hit me. I felt literally like I was falling into Alice in Wonderlands’ rabbit hole, and there was no stopping. So I kind of bowed my head down and said, and I remember just putting my hand on my chest and I just said “those are from me as a gratitude for your work.” But I don’t think she quite got it that I had made the flowers, but in my head, in the moment, was just all this B.S. about…

Carla: ..that you were trying to bring yourself down—I’m not good enough, I should just go home…

Denise: …I’m not good enough, I should just go home, I shouldn’t be knocking at a stranger’s door uninvited—what lack of consideration, you name it, and so nothing that she did to connect with me and ask me where I was from, I had never experienced such a sense of hopelessness, but it was more than that…

Carla: It seems like you had just been turned off…

Denise: …completely. I even got dizzy, I was so disoriented. I couldn’t bring myself back to have cohesive language or anything—I felt like a total (makes a sound) (laughter), so needless to say, I don’t even know what came out of my mouth but she was very very gracious and she stood there holding her flowers and it was just her presence that got me through it. I finally started walking away. I had written a letter to her that kind of explained a little bit about why I was coming to her door and I said whenever she had an opportunity I would like to connect with her, I turned my back and went to my car and just started bawling. I just started bawling—I couldn’t believe that had happened to me.

Carla, I didn’t sleep for four days—just beating myself up. Finally after I did my inner work and I did what I call “the clarity process” which is to take each piece of that garbage that comes out, trying to reconstruct what it was that subconsciously I was telling myself and trying to say, “Is it true? Am I really inadequate?” No. Then I kind of put all that into perspective and in truth and in false. Then I was able to say, “well, voila! Who am I? Am I the flower lady (which was a trade that I carried very honestly and with pride because it was service others) or am I the author or who am I?” What I came to realize is that I’m neither. I’m not the flower lady; I’m not the philosopher; I’m the observer. I’m the observer in what is happening in that present moment. So, it was really invigorating.

Carla: So you brought yourself into the “Now.”

Denise: …into the “Now.” It was really invigorating and so charismatic and so heartwarming to find myself right back into the spirit. I’m not the labels that I give myself or that others give me but I am that which inhabits the space of my Creator. That was it. It was magical. But it takes doing the work…

Carla: …it took you four days of …

Denise: …of agony. Why do we do this to ourselves? I’ve had many other moments like that where you come into the realization that if not for the gift of someone else standing in there, whether they’re slapping you senseless or whether they’re gifting you with their love and light. Where would I be as an individual?

But anyway, how about if we conclude this? Do you have anything that you want to share with others, into a little tidbit of advice on how to do this or don’t do that, or is there anything that you have there for others?

Carla: I think if I had one thing to say it would be to keep a light heart, to keep going no matter what, and to keep lifting up from that heavy feeling—“oh, this is hard.” But we’re making it hard for some reason, why are we making it hard? Take it there, where there’s hope of opening your heart back up and keep your hope open, keep hope going, keep faith going. If there was one thing I would say, it would be to have faith in yourself—have faith in your discrimination, in your discernment, and even if you don’t think you have anything to share, you do—have faith in that. Sort of probe around and find out what that might be. Where have you loved doing work? Where have you gone from the duty of “Oh, I have to go to work,” to “Oh my God, I get to go to work today! Hatcha!” What have you loved doing and try to find a way to learn more about that part of yourself that loves to work, because there’s where your service is. It’s not in something that you must do, or have to do, or should do, it’s in doing the part that you really love.

Now I know if you’re a single mom and you’ve got to work two jobs to pay the bills and you come home and the kids are crying and there’s no food on the table until you get it there, and it’s really hard to keep the energy going. It’s really hard to do that. But, pull back, pull up. If nothing else then just take a look at that little child and rediscover the joy of him or her, because we all love our babies. Rest in the love that we have for that sweet little being that is at the moment is driving you crazy by banging on a pan or crying and whining the way kids do over nothing, and believe in yourself. Have faith in yourself. Don’t ever let that go. Just keep on keeping on because it’s going to happen for all of us in unusual and unexpected ways, but we need to be present enough to be aware of it. We don’t want to miss it.

Denise: Absolutely not. We don’t want to miss it. Why else did we come here to begin with?

Carla: So try to stay aware enough—conscious enough of the moment, so that the moment doesn’t just pass us by. The more we can do that, the more we can sink into the present moment, and enjoy it for what it is. Really dig it. Then the more we can use it, the more we can respond to it, the more we can witness it. All those things that we came here to do, we came here to love. And you know, the funny thing is we came here to be loved as well, and it’s the hardest thing in the world to accept love from other people. It’s hard to take a complement for instance—someone gives you a complement and you say “well, thank you very much, but I don’t think I’m that good, really.” Don’t do that. Just accept the complement, say “Thank you.” Accept the love offerings of other people. Let people love you back—it’s so important and it’s so hard to do. It’s a lot easier to love than it is to be loved.

Denise: Absolutely. Carla, it’s been an absolute pleasure to do this one more time with you and I’m looking forward to writing a little story of it that we can share with those at Huffington Post, so I will keep you posted. Hugs and kisses to everyone.

Carla: Well, thank you very much and hugs and kisses to you right back.

Denise: Okay, See you honey, you take care, bye bye.

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