An intimate interview exploring her journey with *The Law of One* and the deeper meaning of service and unity.

Denise Wilbanks – Interviewer

This is Denise Wilbanks with Huffington Post and I’m here with Carla Rueckert, the channel for the Ra Material also known as The Law of One and I’ve had the privilege of meeting Carla here for five or 10 minutes. I’m delighted to have come to your home, thank you for having me.

Oh, you’re so welcome, and I’m so glad to meet you.

So Carla, can you give us a little update about you and what you’ve been doing for the last few years.

Well, as you know my life is The Law of One. The Law of One Is my heart. I started on this path when I was 19 years old and I’m 70 so you can imagine just how long it’s been–it’s been a long road for me. What has happened in the last little while is that my legs started not to work and my back started to twist. They haven’t been able to do anything about my legs but they have been able to, in three operations, keep my back from twisting to the point where the joints don’t communicate; the nerves don’t communicate. I’ve had eight vertebra up near my neck fused, I’ve had two vertebra—lumbar vertebra—fused, and then the 5th lumbar vertebra, I’ve had the disc taken out. So those are the three operations and I’m still in bed here—it’s called a Clinitron Bed and you have to lie in it so that it can do its job so I am experiencing a time of great peace and inner work and a lot of joy is coming from that. Of course, I’m exercising my legs walking with Jim’s help (my husband) without whom I can’t imagine life. And since taking pain medication I do not trust my focus enough to channel or to do really creative writing. I have spent the time editing older works that have never seen the light of day. I started out when I was really in tough shape just working on my recipes– I have probably 2000 recipes in my database. I reformatted them all to one format so that no matter what recipe you pull out—if it says “T” it means tablespoon, if it’s a “t” that’s teaspoon. So the format is the same. I like them to all read the same.

This is a long-term thing and I’m hoping one day to do a daybook where there’s a little something for everybody—there’s a little spiritual stuff, there’s a little how to get blood out of cotton, there’s a recipe that’s really good for comfort food, there’s just whatever good things we love to see and will pick us up during the day. And, of course, they need testing. And I’ve got a lot of girlfriends that are interested in the project too. I think a lot of collaborators are good for this– there are artists that just love to draw, just anything pretty, just anything that’ll make a girl go “ahhh” or “oooo”.

I’ve been glancing, and I say “glancing” because there’s so much of the material that you write that is so captivating but yet one thing refers to another and then another and it kind of layers and it’s been really wonderful hopping around among all the books that you have written as well as the books that you and Jim and Don collaborated on.

Well, the one that we collaborated on was totally special and you’re talking at this point about the Law of One. The 106 sessions that Don had in conversation with Those of Ra were absolutely unique. They were the only sessions I’ve ever done in trance. I do not know how I did the trance; I would not recommend to anyone that they try trance without going to a spiritualist school and learning how to take care of yourself when you’re doing it because it has a tendency to eat up the body and it ate up my body very quickly. I very quickly went down to 80 pounds and I ate more than I ever ate in my life and I could not gain a pound and this went on for 3 ½ years while I was being active with the Ra Material. I knew that there was the real possibility that I could die because my health was failing from doing these and you get down to when you weigh too little and your kidneys, your organs start to have trouble. I didn’t care; I absolutely didn’t care, I adored Don and the only time in my whole life that I ever saw him happy was when he was going to talk to Ra, to Those of Ra, and I would give my life for the next conversation. That was all there was to it and Jim felt the same way and Don felt the same way and we simply knew that we were bringing through something that was very very special.

And your role was absolutely vital–the part that you played…

…I seemed to be the only one that could receive and I think I was born that way. I was born unusually–I was a 10 month baby and spent a long time in the womb and when I was born I was only 6 pounds and I had a lot of birth defects, most especially my left eye had turned completely into my brain, and a lot of brain damage and was sticking into the amygdala which is the third eye so well-beloved by Hindu gurus. It’s the third eye that you focus on when you mediate and I think mine was open when I was born and I think it was part of my job that I was born to do to be able to do this channeling and I don’t think that I came from around here. I think where I came from the wiring was different–the wiring was a lot like that of Ra so that I was able to tune in to that very very fine tuning that no one else could get. The first time around they did try Don and they tried a student of mine who was a very good student but they couldn’t get it. Don taught me and I don’t believe Jim could’ve gotten it. Anyway, I was the only one that could get it so I was born to do this work and we all felt that we were born to do it. We focused on it–we rushed from one session to the next with great joy and Don knew after the first session that we were going to get a book of this and he asked Ra “may we do a book of your communications?” They said whatever you want. But they would only work questions; they did not want to give a sermon, they didn’t have anything to say. They said “Our information is always the same; it’s not different from what you’ve heard before; it’s always and ever the eternal wisdom.” But the way they put it together is huge in terms of its being–yes it is different–it describes where we came from, where we are, where we’re going and why we’re going there…what the whole point is of our living and how we can graduate from this realm to higher realms.

Tell me a little bit about that graduating point. I’m going to skip to some of the terms that Ra uses, and by the way, to those that are listening and for you to know, Carla, I am linking your previous Youtube that you had from several years ago and so that kind of gives a well-rounded impression of the Law of One, as well as the concept of polarity and so forth. But there are some other terms that were not implicitly explained in that…

…yes, “graduation” can be a sticking point for alot of people, especially people that were brought up Christian. They are very concerned about graduation because in the Christian form you either graduate to heaven or you go to hell, or you go somewhere in between–limbo isn’t really understood, it’s kind of a waiting room that goes on forever, I’m not precisely clear about limbo and I don’t think anyone else is, but ascension, to a lot of people, is like–there are 144,000 people that could ascend and for the rest of us, well, too bad. Well, that’s not the way it is. And then there was this fear that it was all going to happen in one day and that’s not the way it is. It’s already happened in one day as far as what happens when the period of the Winter Solstice of 2012 was when our earth clocked into 4th density. We are now receiving 4th density light which has a huge amount of information in it that 3rd density light cannot hold. When Ra uses the term “densities” he’s talking about how dense the light is with information. Science has been seeing more and more subatomic particles that they can’t explain. It’s because of the fact that we’re changing over into 4th density light, and now, this is 4th density–here we are. And those of us that were 3rd density born, do not have the DNA to take in all of the information in the light, and if we can get any more of the information, it is hard, because it tells the truth, and the truth is something we don’t like to tell ourselves. We don’t like to know our shadow side. We like to know the good things about ourselves, but we don’t like to know that we could steal, that under the right circumstances we could kill, that we could be furiously jealous, that we could have destructive and damaging emotions that would lead us to illegal acts. We don’t want to know that. Because we don’t want to know that, there is a shadow side of us that has gone unclaimed, and it’s like the wolf at the door. If you’ll bring the wolf into the kitchen and say: “beloved wolf, beloved killer, beloved thief, I love you but I can’t work with you unless you’ll promise me to work for the light. If you come into my arms and let me embrace you, and let me explain to you what I need, you’re my guts, you’re my grit, I can turn your anger into determination, I can turn the desire to kill into the desire to get it done; I can use every bit of you but you need to let me assimilate you and you have to promise to work for the light and then come and let me hug you and let me love you” and I’m sorry but it brings me to tears–it’s so important–when you can finally, finally accept yourself you begin to assimilate these parts of yourself that are unlovely and you can begin to make them lovely. You can begin to bring them into the light so that you have less and less about which to worry in terms of impulse. What you’re wanting to do is to know yourself; know all of yourself, every bit of yourself, to accept yourself, to forgive yourself, and to fall in love with yourself and when you fall in love with yourself you begin to realize that falling in love with yourself is falling in love with a person that is obviously imperfect. Give it up folks! This is why we’re here. If we were perfect we would not be doing time on Planet Earth. Planet Earth is boot camp. This is not easy.

[Laughing] You had a little thing on Wanderer’s Handbook that really caught my eye that kind of speaks to that. It said: “This reversal of attitude: the embrace of suffering, of processing catalyst delivers to the seeker, her own inner child again.” I can so relate to that because when you get to that very tender spot of acceptance, as you face that child in yourself you’re free and it’s so, I don’t even have a word for it, but it’s so delightful to find the face of that child that we left behind…

…well, we did and we forgot how to dance; we’ve forgotten how to sing and we got self-conscious and we forgot that we were wonderful and when you remember how wonderful you were as a kid and you get back there and you reclaim that and yes, you are that child and you have matured sweetly and not bitterly and you have brought that child into your maturity and you can dance and you can sing and you can fly. And then you can see the soul of everybody else and how they, no matter what they’re acting like, are the Creator too, and they are also beautiful. And you relate to that soul to that child within, if you will, that person within, that was so perfect before we began having to survive; before we had to find behaviors that would allow us to survive childhood. There are things that parents do and that teachers do and other people of authority, whatever they may be, older sisters, whoever might be in the position of bullying us, hurting us, abusing us, and as we learn to be safe with them, we stifle, we hide, we repress, we don’t express. It’s not safe to express what we think; it’s not safe to express what we want and so little by little we hide from ourselves. We grow up and we’re not the person that we really really could be. We need to find that again.

But at any rate you were asking about transition into graduation. Graduation is really simple. You need to love each other and you need to accept the love offerings of other people. Love and be loved. It’s just as hard to be loved as it is to love. But, it’s as simple as that. When you–over half the time your mind is on doing something to help somebody besides yourself, you’ve graduated. And don’t you know that everybody’s mother, well, not everybody’s mother, but so many people that may never have gone to college, they may not have a high I.Q., they may never have had intellectual learning, they may never have had advantages, they may be as poor as church mice, they may speak poorly, but they love–and they’d give you the shirt off their backs. They’re always giving you cookies or a smile or telling you that you’re good, that you’re going to make it, that you’re a good person and that’s the kind of person that’s already graduated–just doing time here on Planet Earth just waiting for the next chapter to be written in the book.

Now, there is a problem that you have to face with people growing up in the Western Hemisphere. We have not been taught to accept reincarnation. When Jesus lived, reincarnation was accepted and Jesus accepted it. But, if you look at the history of the bible, there was a lady in the 4th Century who wanted to get every mention of reincarnation out of the Bible. In the Council of Nisea that was the instruction: find and remove any discussion having to do with reincarnation. I think basically she didn’t want to come back, she wanted to go straight to heaven and so she wanted to erase that. Plus the Church fathers realized what a power they could hold if they held the ability to withhold approval and thereby withhold someone from going to heaven. That’s what the indulgences were and you paid heavily for that in the middle ages and that was all politics, it was all the church, none of that had to do with Jesus, none of that had to do with what he taught, but it is in the Christian teaching because of politics and personality and people.

So the other half of the world, Asia, Asia Minor, India, Pakistan, The Middle East, the Far East, they accept reincarnation. It makes it a lot easier to accept what Ra teaches, which is that we come back many times learning the lesson of each density. We’re in third grade, third density. The first grade or the first density is the elements: earth, air, wind, fire, water, mountains, rock, the four directions, those things that the American Indian worships. These are first density. The second density is that which can turn to the light; the animals that seek the light, the plants that seek the sun. Third density is the first density that has a soul and that’s us.

We are in third density and we have one job here and it’s to make a choice between service to others and service to ourselves. Either we can hope to serve others in what we do–whether we teach or are a mom or dad, we pay for everything in the house to provide for the family, or we channel or we draw or we dance or sing or we express ourselves artistically in some way. There are so many ways to serve–humble ways or more public ways. And if we set our mind on those tracks and find work we love that is of service to others then we’re in the best of all possible worlds for ourselves. We’re having a good time, we’re serving others and we’re set to graduate third density. We’re thinking of others more than half the time–it’s our work, it’s our joy, it’s our passion.

It’s those who haven’t chosen yet that are having a hard time. There are a few people who have decided that they really want to serve themselves; they want to use other people and they don’t see other people as anything but cannon fodder if they’re in the Army or people on the chessboard if they’re corporations or in politics. There are ways of working which lend themselves to service to self. The Army, the corporations and in politics are the three. I’m not saying that everybody there is in service to self; I’m saying that the temptations of power are fierce and they have to do with demoting everybody to the level of nobody–of nothing except a person on a chessboard where you move them around when they’re of use and you knock them off the chessboard if they are of no use at all–you don’t think about them. There are very few that actually want to be of service to themselves like that. They have to be 95% of the time thinking about being of service to themselves so it’s very hard to graduate in a negative sense–it’s much easier to graduate service to others because you only have to do a little more than 51% of the time thinking of others.

One of the questions, related back to reincarnation, as you were mentioning, that I read was that at one point in time our density did have the ability to remember their prior reincarnation, but somewhere along the line that particular neuro pathway was blocked intentionally so that we would somewhat forget, I think it’s what you call “the veil of illusion”…

The veil of forgetting…

…so that we wouldn’t remember that and then be able to experience…

Ok, here’s the logic of that and it’s a tough logic, but it holds. The logic of it is that if you can remember how everything works, you’re happy–you can’t help but be happy. It’s so wonderful how everything works, it’s such a beautiful thing, it’s so full of love and we’re all one, and when you can remember that and see that, you’re happy, and it just slows you down because why would you want to do the work to choose–I am going to choose to be an ethical person, I’m going to stick to my ethics, I’m going to do the right thing no matter how hard it is; I’m going to live and die by this code of ethics that I now believe is what I think is the right thing, and that’s basically what you’re trying to get yourself to do.

So, in other words, a little more catalyst…

So if you’re blocked then it is an act of will to choose to be a person of integrity and ethics and to do the right thing and to be somebody that people can honor and trust and can believe in and you want people to be able to say about you, “Oh, Carla would never break a promise.” “Oh, Denise would never go back on a promise.” You want to be somebody that people can trust and love and know to be good. And once you choose that then time after time you’re tested and sometimes it’s very difficult to choose the right thing–what you think is right because there are so many excuses that people give. How many times have you heard people say “Well, you know, we just don’t fit together any more, it’s like I’ve outgrown him and I just can’t be around him because he doesn’t nurture me any more.” And what they’re saying is they’ve gotten bored so they’re not going to keep the promise they made to the Lord. They’re not going to remember that they promised in front of God and everybody, that they said for better, for worse, for richer, for poorer… You read the marriage contract–no small print–nothing. That’s a tough one and I’ve been through a bad marriage and oh, gosh, the things that I gave up because of that “no small print” and yet if I hadn’t given up every single one of them, and done every single thing that that idiot asked me to do, I would not be here right now because I would not have ended up meeting Don C. Elkins and James Allen McCarty, and finding my way to this beautiful place that I am and that I’ve been in since I was 25 years old. I thank the Lord that something in me made me keep my promises, every single one, and no matter how ridiculous it looked at the time and how winding my path was, it brought me where I needed to be at the right time and the right place.

And that’s what you have to remember is looking back over the long view you see what it brought you. You had a period of testing–are you worth it, can you be trusted with this mission?–and then once you’ve gone through these things you suddenly receive a very large offering, just like Jim and Don and I received the first Ra contact. We could have quit at any time. And I knew that there was the real possibility that I could die because my health was failing We could have quit when we discovered that it was making me lose 2 to 3 pounds at a session. Obviously, that’s not good for you.

What exactly is the cost of the great loss to you now? Metaphysically, what was happening?

It wasn’t metaphysical, I think it was physical. I think it was that I did not understand, I had no ability to generate ectoplasm and let the ectoplasm carrying the part that was with Ra. And so I generated it from within myself and every single time I finished a contact I was desperate to go to the bathroom and I peed and I peed and I peed like a crazy person and I lost it that way. I lost it that way and that’s not a good way to lose weight.

But you also, each session was what, an hour, an hour and a half and that was an entire time that you were practically paralyzed…

Yes, I wasn’t there, I was asleep. They had trouble moving me at all and if anybody has rheumatoid arthritis out there they know that the worst thing you could do is to just stay in one position. You need to keep moving–little movements and big movements, and just keep shifting around a little bit so that your bones don’t freeze. I would wake up from those sessions and I was frozen. I was having trouble with various joints and they would try to move a joint and Jim said that they would spend 30 seconds, and he couldn’t even see the movement, and it would be enough to relieve apparently the worst of…

So Ra was trying to move you?

They would try to move me but they had a lot of trouble understanding how the body worked. They couldn’t do much at all. We still have our alter in the front room if you want to do any B roll you’re welcome to take a picture of it. We have our alter in the living room between our books and our sound system–right in middle of our lives, that’s where our alter is. But we’ve kept the alter and the bible, but I use them and the candle and the chalice that we had, all of the things that we used on that alter we have preserved and honored in our alter today.

Tell me a little bit–why were they so particular about the orientation of the head and how it had to be measured and particularly placed and the candle had to be rotated. There was something–what was that?

Yes, and it took them a long time to figure it out. It was a clue and they couldn’t say it straight out, but whenever we started going off the beam–whenever we started asking questions that didn’t have spiritual use, they would say that we were out of–coming out of alignment–our alignments were off. We finally figured out that they were trying to tell us that we were off the beam, we weren’t asking questions that they could answer. “Why are you asking us that stupid question?” So then after we figured that out then we understood. Don had so much struggle because he’d been studying for so long and he had so many questions about so many things and they’d say one little thing and all of his careful questions–he’s studied the previous session and he’d write down his questions–we’d do our best too, but it was mostly Don, and he had it very well prepared, and then zing, over there, UFOs or pyramids or men in black or….

Yes, and even the part where they asked you to not speak of things that weren’t relevant in that room so as to keep the integrity of the energy. I thought that was very impressive. Anybody who has done any kind of energy work understands what it is to behold that space, so I was very impressed with that particular idea.

Yes, the reason I was so impressed with them wanting me to keep the cross was that any metal in the room made it harder for them to have that very fine tuning.

Yes, because metal is a superconductor.

And yet they knew that it was going to make my heart rest to know that I had my cross on and I have a cross on right now and I want to wear my cross and doing that work I needed to wear my cross and they wanted me to wear my cross because that was my path to the Creator and that’s one thing that separates the philosophy of Ra from a lot of other philosophies and religions is that as far as Ra is concerned, any way of getting to the Creator that you want to is fine with them. Do it anyway you want. Just let it work, make it work, make it tell you about love. As long as your path leads you to love others and love your neighbor as yourself, and then let other people love you; as long as your path has that in it, they’re fine with it—absolutely fine. They want you to have that, they want you to have your distortions. “Distortions” is not a bad word to them. Everything is a distortion, starting with free will. That is the first distortion and that’s the most important thing to them. So many times we’d ask them a question and they’d say “we’re sorry, but we cannot infringe upon free will.”

Now I notice that they use the word “distortion” in about two or three different contexts. Can you help clarify a bit about that?

Well, it would seem to be different contexts but in actuality if you understand that the only thing that’s not a distortion is the Creator—the One Infinite Creator. Beyond all telling, beyond all words, beyond any description, that’s the only thing that is without distortion. The first distortion is free will. By free will the Creator decided to know itself better, and in order to know itself, it had to send out holographs of itself—parts of itself—that had all of the Creator in it. We are all little Creators and we are all reporting back to the Creator. We’re witnessing, we’re experiencing, we’re choosing, we’re deciding, and our decisions and our choices, tell the Creator about itself. It learns about itself from us.

So that’s the first distortion. What’s the second distortion? The second distortion is love. The Creator had to be objectified in order to create a universe; in order to create an illusion that would hold together, a physical ratio in time and space that could remain solid looking to our eyes, and so the nature of the Creator had to be solidified and that was solidified into love, the logos, the one great original thought—Love.

The third distortion was light. And light is what gave the Creator the ability to make the densities because it was able to use the various elements of love and light in different ways in order to create different illusions.

So we have heavier illusions and we have lighter illusions. After that, all of the distortions are basically [inaudible] and we are all the creator of these distortions, and we create the distortions as to how we live by our free will, by how we witness the scenes before our eyes—the lovely scenes, the hateful scenes, the ugly scenes, the beautiful scenes and everything in between. We give back to the Creator the results of what we’ve witnessed, what we’ve experienced and what we’ve used to come to the conclusion that we are somebody and that we are going to be somebody that loves. When we take hold of ourselves and say “I’m going to work this puzzle.” (That’s what it basically is) “I’m going to work this puzzle.” Well, the way you work it is to gain polarity and you gain polarity either by loving others more, or loving yourself more. That’s the way you get off of the dime. You get power to your wheels so that you can go by how you love, how you choose to love, how you choose your life. And every time you choose, especially if it costs you to choose, if there’s something you want very much and yet you know that you need to do the other thing, and you do the other thing, and you are unselfish and you have given of yourself, you have just created work in consciousness, and you do enough of that work and you become very magical. In your magic you can create like the Creator creates and when you get magical enough, you begin to demur, and not very many of us get there in this lifetime, but it is possible, and we have seen that again and again—we’ve seen people do miraculous things because they did the work to become magical. They created of themselves a being that knew how to work the puzzle, knew how to love, knew who they were.

Because there is the polarity, to some extent polarity confuses some people with duality, which obviously many want to incline more to that concept of singularity with the Creator. So there is a little bit of reluctance as to the acceptance of the material—define the difference as between polarity and duality.

All right. We are in a density that is defined by the opposites, light and dark, good and evil, winter or summer, all of the opposites that we know, male and female and so forth, they are opposites but not one better than the other in the case of most of the opposites; not one better than the other—light, dark—not one better than the other because there are night spirits that work with the gardening and there are daytime spirits that work with the gardening, it depends on the crop that you want.

So what you have to realize is that we are getting material from a sixth density source. In that sixth density, all the paradoxes are resolved. They see no real opposites any more. They’ve all been taken and brought into unity in and breadth of sixth density learning—first learning how to love, then how to be wise, and then learning how to move those two together. There’s so much that separates sixth density from third. That’s one reason why the Q’uo material is a lot easier to understand than the Ra material, because in the Q’uo I’ve got fourth density Hatonn, the one that you love so much, that is the density of love, who is just sending love the whole time. I’ve got the density of wisdom…

[emotionally exclaims] Hatonn is here…

Yes, he’s here, he’s right here sweetheart. You bet your life… And then there’s Latwi, and he’s fifth density and he’s doing the speaking. He’s always been my favorite—he’s got a great sense of humor. And then Ra never speaks because I do not want to work in trance, and I know I don’t want to, and I promised the Ra group when we were all three alive I would not do that, and Ra said “do not do sessions unless you have Don and Jim because you will not be protected if you try to channel Ra when you have only Jim or only Don—it has to be both of them. So I don’t even try. So part of my tuning is—I set my intention to channel the highest and best I could possibly channel of the love of the One Infinite Creator as in Jesus the Christ, unconditional love, in a conscious and stable manner, so that is why they made up the Q’uo principle. They made that up strictly to come to my request, to give the highest and best information I could possibly receive in the vibration of Jesus with the highest informational content possible. So I am getting Ra and Latwi and Hatonn, sort of getting together on a question and deciding how to answer it in a way out of our time so that it takes no time for them to do this. And then when Latwi answers I can take it consciously and it doesn’t harm me. As a matter of fact, when I come out of a Q’uo session I am generally hyped up, because I’m getting the vibrations of all the people in the circle as it goes around and they’re all giving me all their beautiful love and I’m just so full of energy because of all these gifts I’m being given. So I have to come down from a session usually. I don’t sleep much until 2 or 3 in the morning after a session because the energy has been so wonderful and it has to gently go away and leave me on my own. I have good energy on my own but it’s nothing like other people’s energy. A lot of people have tremendous physical energy and power and when they are batteries in a circle then they just amp it up and really really I’m often better than I was when I do channeling and not worse.

I know people worry about my channeling now. They should not worry because as long as I’m channeling the conscious positive way that I have learned, that I learned how to do long ago in the 70’s and was practicing long before I got to Ra, and I kept doing it while I was doing Ra and I kept on doing it after. It’s the way I teach it. I don’t teach anything to do with trance. The way I teach is conscious and it’s hard for people, most people, some people are gifted and you never know when you’re going to get a gifted person. For most people it’s hard to let go. But actually, that’s the whole point, you see. What you’re asking about the frontal lobes. If we let go, we go right in—doors open. You know that beautiful hymn about Jesus—“We are knocking outside the fast closed door.” We forget to knock. All we have to do is just knock on the door and go right through it and there it all is, but we forget, and we don’t ask and we don’t knock and we don’t know that we can do it and we hold back and are afraid. And we may even feel something but no, it can’t be, it has to just be myself, so most people they waste a lot of time saying no, I think it’s just me trying to create it.

So when you’re looking at opposites, anything can have an opposite, and they don’t always have polarity. Like, for instances, male and female. They’re opposites and there are a lot of differences in the polarity of a man and a woman. But a physical male may not be wired like a metaphysical masculine person. He may have very strong feminine energy, and a woman may have very strong masculine energy. So a lot of times when people get together you wonder why, but what you don’t realize is that underneath the surface, when they’re just really being themselves, they’re balancing like crazy, but it just so happens that she’s the guy. I don’t mean in terms of S&M. I don’t mean she’s got a whip and leather, I’m not talking about that sort of thing, I’m saying she has the reaching and he has the ability to await the reaching. Or you can have some masculine, some feminine. You can have a lot of masculine in yourself but you’ve been a woman for so long and so many times, that you can’t help but be attracted the way a woman would be attracted because it doesn’t matter. You’ve just been a woman too many times. You explain to people, I’m gay. And people say, “Oh come on, we can talk you out of this.” Well, you can’t. The person has had too many incarnations as a women or too many incarnations as a guy. It’s not going to work. I ask one gay friend when he knew he was gay and he said he was four. He and his sister went to see “Gone with the Wind” and they both fell for Clark Gable. That’s not something you get taught. I think we’re very very wrong if we judge people for expressing sexuality other than normal, because they’re not wrong. Whatever they are is just right for them and they came in that way because they’re having to learn something. Whatever they’re having to learn, let’s help them learn it. Let’s give them the ability to be themselves and learn whatever it is they came here to learn and not try to mess about with pretense and hypocrisy and hiding.

I have so many friends that are hiding because I’m 70 and when I was a kid you couldn’t say you were gay unless you were in the arts. And if you were in the arts then people would just say, “well, he’s an artist, he’s an actor, he’s a dancer.” But if you’re a pile driver or plumber and you’re gay, then no, people just didn’t know how in my generation, so if you wanted to have a family, you had to marry a woman even if you were attracted to guys. If you were lucky, you got a woman who you could explain the situation to, who would say it was okay for you to have your lovers and I will have mine, but I will have a family with you and I will not get pregnant by anybody else, and we will have a family. If you weren’t lucky then you had to hide from your wife too.

Yes, this society has not allowed us to be vulnerable—that’s one of the greatest lessons I believe we have to learn in this density.

Yes, it’s so important. I’m so lucky to be straight, and I can’t help it. As I was growing up I was attracted to men. Everything worked right for me. I didn’t date because I tried lust early on in life. I tried kissing the most handsome guy I knew—I set it all up. I was fifteen and I was a very logical fifteen and I didn’t want to miss anything so I decided to check it out. So the most handsome guy in the class was attracted to me and he took me on a date and he felt me up and kissed me and I was nauseated. I knew lust was not for me, so I didn’t date. I didn’t date until I was engaged. That was my first date was when I was engaged. It was the guy I became engaged to. And I knew, I guess it took about two years, very slow development and oh, when my passion hit I became full blooded and I still have it to this day, and I thank the Lord for that guy because he didn’t stick around, he wasn’t good for sticking around, but while I was his focus, while I was his virgin, he loved me like nobody else and saw me perfectly and gave me the best possible introduction to being a woman. And now, I have that gift and I have nice round heels for the people I love the most.

Speaking of sexuality, because I think that’s a topic that is very valuable to touch on, one of the most interesting things that awakened me in your book “The Wanderer’s Handbook” was when Ra spoke about energy exchange. In that moment, and I don’t remember the specific quote, in that moment, Carla, I specifically remembered being in (and I’m a wanderer) my prior density on that planet at home, and making love out of my body. It felt incredible. In other words, it was this out-of-body experience and the spirit is just spiraling above and in unison with the other energy and I knew in that moment that, wait a minute, I’m not from here, I’m not from around here, that’s not how we do it here. So that was such a…

I had the same thing and it hasn’t shaken me at all because I seem to have known forever that I wasn’t like other people and that was okay. But I’ve known people, I’ve shook their hands and I had an orgasm, and it sounds dirty because we’ve dirtied up the words but it was an exchange of all of his energy and all of my energy and he was totally open and I was totally open and it happened. Neither of us meant for it to happen, we weren’t expecting it to happen and it happened and we just both grinned. It was heaven to know each other that well, that quickly and to feel how beautiful each other really was.

You know you can do that with anybody if they would be totally open with you, but we’re not taught to be open to each other, are we? No, we’re not. We’re taught to be careful and cautious and shake hands so carefully.

That’s so sad because even our youth is having such a different quality of relationship these days—texting back and forth and there’s not this communion of spirits in a way and it really breaks my heart.

Well, in a way it’s better than it used to be because at least they’re talking. I know that there was a time when you didn’t even have—you had ritualistic, almost non-talking that was a dance of courtship and you could barely make sense saying anything except things having to do with that dance of courtship, dates and stuff. So I don’t see the texting as really bad—I see it as a good thing in that at least people are talking and maybe getting to know each other a little bit better. If you’re on the phone for hours that’s perfect. If you’re sitting there talking and you start to tell each other your secrets, that’s perfect. Then you’re starting to get into the deeper layers because if you stay on the surface with people you can make a good impression but when you’re going to be with somebody, you can’t be with somebody and always be living Sunday. You have to take the Sunday clothes off—you’ve got to take the Sunday attitude off, you’ve got to take the Sunday behavior off and be your Monday or Tuesday or Wednesday self and be whatever you are. What you see is what you get. If we could just stop pretending with each other and be who we are from the very beginning—from the get-go. I think it would be so helpful because when you do that, when you’re not posing or posturing or acting the way that you think somebody wants you to act or the way that you think is cute, when you’re not putting your whole mind into when you flip your hair and what you’re doing that’s attractive, and you’re just communicating…I’ve never been good at parties because I can’t make the small talk. I’ve always hated that and I always ended up in the corner with a gay guy talking about our cats. Or I’m in the kitchen working with the help getting the food ready. I understand that. I can deal with that. I can talk to people about food and serving and I can wash dishes; I can be real, but to get dressed up and then you sit there—you’ve got your food and your drink and you’re trying to figure out what to do and then somebody comes over and starts talking with you and you know that if he really got to know you he wouldn’t like you at all. You just have this feeling, and you don’t like him much…but it’s a party and you make the time pass and finally, thank god, it’s over. I just eventually refused to go to parties—I just didn’t do it anymore.

But you’re having your own party right here.

I always had my own party here. My social life is L&L and we have a meeting every week. Every week we all get together and we talk and we eat together and we have a meditation together and we talk around the circle about what’s happened during the week.

And it’s so nice to be among like-minded people—there is something to be said that when you put that energy out it really circles around…

And if you talk around the circle that circle of strangers becomes a very comfortable circle of friends and auras starting blending and everybody starts relaxing into feeling comfortable with everybody. Most of the time we just don’t want to get hurt so we’re being protective of ourselves, but if we go around the circle and we hear everybody, and we can see that there’s not a person there that’s going to hurt us, that’s going to tell us that they don’t agree or give us a hard time, then you can relax and just let go and then auras blend and everybody feels so much better because when you blend your auras you multiply by a factor of two, every time you add a person. So if you have a meditation group of twelve people, then it’s 2, 4, 8, 16, 32, 64, and that’s only six people, I haven’t even gotten to the other six, and we’re already at the energy of 64 people, and that’s available to the whole group because we’re blending our energies.

And that’s why they say that it doesn’t take much to tip the balance over in consciousness because it’s just a little bit and then suddenly that consciousness starts spreading and raising the level of awareness in others who may not necessarily be oriented in that direction.

Yes, and it’s such a wonderful thing to experience. I wish we all could, I really do. I wish people everywhere would just start having little meetings in their homes and taking a question a week. Who are we? Why are we here? Talking about it for a while and then if there’s something that they think is inspired—not everybody knows a channel, right? But maybe you can read something that’s inspiring, that’s inspired you and you read it and you meditate on it for a while together and then everybody brings something and you eat together and you’re talking while you’re eating and by the time you go home you’re just so full of energy and you’ve given each other so much and it hasn’t cost you anything. It’s a win win win situation, it’s good for everybody.

What have you enjoyed the most aside from obviously bringing this work to the world? I get it that you have a great love for the channeling aspect, but what else have you really enjoyed doing while you’ve been doing this type of work?

I think the thing that thrills me the most is when somebody writes in and says “you’ve changed my life for the better.” And that happens to me every day from somewhere in the world I’ll get an email or a package or a letter. It just hardly ever misses. That’s the most incredible thing to know that your life has made a difference.

I sing, I sang some folk songs at the last homecoming. I gave a little present of singing to my group because I love to sing. I sing a hymn every day and when I’m healthy I sing in the choir at the church, and that probably gives me the most pleasure, other than the things that I do for L&L Research. It’s being part of that music, especially when the other people are worshipping with you, and I happen to be in a church where the people that are in the choir are believers—they aren’t just there as paid singers, they’re there because they love the Lord. We’re Episcopalians—we’re devoted and we’re not just going to row the boat ashore, we’re going to drag it up on the sand and we’re going to have a party—we’re very serious.

Speaking of music, one of the things for instance in my book I incorporated a lot of lyrics and for some reason there is something about my brain that works in that direction. I’m certain that I’m not the only one–I’ve seen so much work done by neuroscience on what’s called “the musical brain” which brings me to the notion of octaves. Ra speaks of octaves so I really get the sense that we’re built that way—that vibration in essence is just one big musical instrument and so we’re all…

…we’re all instruments. People say that’s ridiculous, but we choose what we put out. Everytime we open our mouths to say something, we make a choice. We make a choice of how we say it and we make a choice of the color that we want to put into how we’re saying it and how much of ourselves we want to give in how we’re saying it, and how much we want to let emotion come into it, and all those things. We choose our gifts, we choose what we’re doing and people may say, that’s not being a channel, but yes, you’re channeling your very best self. That’s the self you are at this moment in time. Now if you could think more seriously about being your highest and best self, and took yourself really seriously, and really thought “If I was my highest and best self, how would I answer that question?” Just ask: “Ok, (whatever you call your guidance system), ok, holy spirit, come on, higher self, what’s my highest and best.” And then you give the highest and best and actually, if you ask, it will generally come right through you rather than from you and it’s so much better when it does that. So it’s really good to take that little tiny moment to ask spirit. “Could I please have my highest and best self answer this question?” This is important.

I certainly believe that and I’ve believed that since I was very young. I still refer to it by the old name of “the akashic field.” I don’t know if Ra mentioned any fields or just had more of a nameless…but that sense of energy, that highway of information that you can just plug in and say, “all right, where’s the drive through this one?”

Yes. By whatever language the Ra talks about your guidance, they make sure to let you understand that it’s right there. It’s right there with you and you need only to ask.

Is that what they refer to as “the call?” I wanted to learn, to know, a little bit more about what they refer to as “the call.”

The call?

Yes. I saw various places where they said that they would get the call on a daily basis of any number, and it was a fairly large number, that perhaps could answer…

When there is a prayer sent up, “O Lord, please help me, please, where is the love…” It’s a call for love, it’s a call for understanding. What’s the answer to the question, “how can I understand this—please Lord, where is the love, I’m so lonely.” They call themselves the “Brothers and Sisters of Sorrow” because they feel the sorrow of earth, and they realize that the people are starving for love and they don’t know how to ask for love, they’re just so sad and so sorrowful, and they feel this sorrow.

We’re so good at it when we’re teenagers. We have to ask, we have to make the call, we have to be miserable and express that misery and ask, “why, Lord, why?” or we don’t even know there’s a Lord, it’s just this “why, universe, why do I have to suffer like this?” They hear that and they want to answer the call for positive information, and there are all kinds of different vibrations of positive information available, from the very most simple, to the very most infinitely delicate (like Ra was) and the very very simple ones will just talk about love. Hatonn is wonderful at that and I imagine that you would probably be drawn more to the Hatonn ones where it starts out: “I am Hatonn.” These are probably the messages that you like the best. Occasionally when I’m channeling I’ll get a request: “Can we please have one from Hatonn, I love Hatonn,” and I’ll ask and Hatonn will say “Okay, I’ll do it.”

So you generally ask for the entity to come…”

No, I ask for the highest and best and it always turns out to be Q’uo, because they’ve carefully tailored themselves to be my highest and best. It’s the reason other people don’t get a Q’uo because nobody else is wired like I am, nobody else has the needs that I do. There are lots of people that are wired like Hatonn. A lot of people would, could, do get Hatonn, and there are other 4th density entities that we hear of from time to time. You hear of the Michael entities, they are angelic entities that are 4th density. They give beautiful information from the archangels, especially Michael—Michael is very big. A lot of people channel Michael.

Also, Seth? I’ve also heard of Seth.

Yes. Funny, I don’t know why but I’ve never read it although I’ve tried to read it at least a half a dozen times and I go to sleep. I go to sleep before I’ve gotten half a page done. It’s like I’m not supposed to read it. I don’t know why.

I’m still trying to figure out what, for me, I received one, it was try “shu-woni” and try “shumani.” I was so deep in part sleep that I couldn’t pick up, but then I just…

The names are the hardest to pick up.

And then they normally startle me and then Scion, also, it startled me. It came in the middle of the night: “Scion initiating contact.” Okay? Then boom, I’m sitting up in bed.

Hello? What else did you have to say. [laughter]

So what do you suggest? What is your recommendation to someone like myself who might have been touched by some of these entities and you just don’t quite know what to do with that?

Well, I do teach channeling and if you’d like to read what I teach, you’re certainly welcome to. I recorded one whole set of teaching from first to last and it is in the first cycle of Channeling Intensives and it is in the Library, under meetings, under Channeling Intensives, in the first cycle. If you click on the little icon where it says “First Lesson, Second Lesson,” and so forth, then you can hear what I have to say during that. I also have a Channeling Handbook that just in general, what you’re talking about is tuning, and I bring people into it very gradually—I get them to build their own special place, the place they love the most in all the world, and then they build it just exactly as they want it; they have everything inside that they want to have and it’s where they go to do their work. They always have their guidance there and I spend a whole hour working on people getting their guidance there, and then I ask people, “What are you living for; what would you die for?” You have to know who you are. In the world of channeling ideas and thoughts are things. You have to know who you are as a thought. Are you a thought of love? Would you die for love? What would you die for? What would you stand for, and say “I will not go back on this—even if you kill me, I will not go back on this.” And that is who you are.

I live for Jesus and I would die for Jesus and it’s very simple for me because Jesus was real to me when I was a very little girl. He was part of my magic forest. I would go to this place and Jesus was there and then he would hold my hand and he would look into my eyes and I would know what love was. He never said a word, but those golden eyes that I’ve never forgotten, and he is my beloved to this day and he always will be and I have always wanted to please him and serve him and follow him and express what love is, the way Jesus does, with every fiber of his being. I just try to be like that so when I challenge, I challenge in the name of Jesus Christ and I say “Can you say: Jesus is Lord?” If the energy cannot, then I don’t talk to them—they hang up because they have to because it’s like a brick wall. They can’t deny it, because I am who I am.

Jim, what do you challenge?

Unconditional love.

Jim challenges on unconditional love, that’s what he would die for and that is what he lives for. You have to know that about yourself. So I get everybody to do that and then I ask people to tune up to their highest and best self, however they do that. Some people do it by just meditating; some people do it by talking to their higher self or talking to the Creator by setting their intention. Other people have singing or chanting or Oming that they do; there’s a certain phrase that some people have: “chuk tat lung (phonetically) chuk tat lung,” that one lady gave as something that you would say for a minute to drive out all negative spirits—“chuk tat lung, chuk tat lung,” say it for a minute straight, and all negative spirits are gone from the area.

So all of those things that you have learned in your life that you may want to use, however you use it. I tune with hymns, with prayers, and talking, expressing my intention, setting my intention very clearly and setting my total willingness and service and my realization that in no way am I saying that I am a perfect person—I am just willing to do my best and I will do my level best and my promise, and then I’m ready. So you do all those things and as you do them you tune out a lot of energies that you may not want to talk to.

It’s almost like qualifying it.

Yes. You’re refining the vibration. You’re getting the vibration just exactly at your highest and best, and then you’re asking for a voice that will speak to you on that, and then you challenge that and see as who you are. “I come in the name of unconditional love; I come in the name of Jesus the Christ; and I challenge you.” “Can you say you come in unconditional love, can you say Jesus is Lord?” You challenge and actually I do it three times just to make absolutely sure that I’ve gotten my intention set totally clearly and after three times if they say “Yes, Jesus is Lord,” then I’m interested in what they have to say and they can go right ahead.

When you channel, do you feel anything physically? I feel a lot of tingling and vibration and warmth.

I used to but I don’t so much anymore. I used to so much that it blew me away.

Cause like right now I’m sitting here and my feet are just hot as can be and they’re tingling and the energy…

Well, bless your heart.

It feels wonderful. I’m feeling a somewhat of a kundalini energy moving up and down.

Well, we’re talking about that and it’s no wonder that you are. Yes, it’s very common for that to happen, and when I was learning to channel, that was the first thing I had to get over. I’d get the energy—whoa—and I’ve never done drugs, serious drugs, and I don’t know what it’s like to do a needle and then have a rush, but so much of a rush would hit me that I couldn’t do anything. I was thrown into a state of absolute idiocy and I had to get over that and finally, I withstood it and waited and it calmed down to where I could start. But I never got words, I always got concepts. I never got word words, it would be an idea, it would be a thought and then I’d have to translate it into words. Roll it out like dough and then put a cookie cutter to it and get words out. If you stay too long, trying to get all the subtleties out of it, then you lose the contact, so you have to do it fast. You have to get it, spit it out, get it, spit it out—it feels very jerky, but it comes out smooth.

And I think that for me that’s how music has helped me because the spirit tends to relate to me in songs, it really does, and thru the musicality and lyrics, I get the concept, so I’m able to hold it a little bit longer to work with it, almost it’s a little more malleable, and I can sense being with it without it sort of feeling like…

Express it. Go ahead and sing the song.

Well, they’re normally current songs that are in—so in other words it gives me, it brings me a particular current song that another artist has, but the lyrics are usually what helps me express. These are lyrics that somebody else has written, and then I can get the concept that it’s trying to convey to me. So, you see what I’m saying? I’m able to be with the energy a little bit longer because it has left a particular imprint with me. Does that make any sense?

Yes. Just wait it out, wait-wait-wait until the music is done and then express and then see if more comes and then express, then see if more comes, and then express, and just, I can’t describe this in a very lady-like way, but you have to hang your ass over the line.

I love it. [Laughing] Ok, I’m going to have to end with that.

You have no idea if you’re going to be an absolute idiot, if you’re going to be a fool, there was one time for a period of several weeks where they were, for some reason, they decided that they wanted me to be able to do that, and they started giving me words and numbers and little bits of tunes, and it didn’t make any sense, and it was the most frustrating doggone thing I ever did. I guess they did it about three times like that and then they did it word, by word, by word, by word, and I’d get one word at a time and said it, and said it. Finally, when I was able to ask them why, they said I needed to achieve more of a complete focus, and they were giving me exercises to encourage the precision of my focus, and they were just trying to help me out. They were trying to help me to be a better channel, so that when I got the big concepts I could keep that precision going and not get lost trying to get too much out of the concept ball, because you really have to just spit it out and be contented with what you can say, in a very short time, because otherwise, you’ll lose the concept.

Don’t do it alone, is all I can say. Wait until you’ve got three people, at least three people, and it really does help if you have a more experienced channel than yourself there, just to watch your back, and tune for all you’re worth and challenge for all you’re worth, and then whatever comes, comes. I would never judge somebody according to what name was on the channel; I would look at the channeling. I would see if the channeling lifted me up. I would see if the channeling helped me. I would see if the channeling was positive and it gave me love and that’s how I would judge it. Because when you look at channels, when an ego has had its sway, people have started answering questions where, if they were honest, they would have, the original channel would have said, “We’re sorry, but we cannot answer that question. We cannot brook freewill.” And they don’t want an answer like that—they want an answer, and all you have to do is have enough ego to say, “No, I want an answer,” and then your tuning slips, right down and you’ll get another entity who’s perfectly happy to call itself the same entity and it will give you an answer, every single time, and make you feel really good, and then you’ve lost something precious.

That’s pretty interesting.

I’ve never judged another channel, and I won’t. I won’t even judge my own channeling and I ask people…In my own channeling they always say, they start out by saying, “If this appeals to you than take it; if it doesn’t, leave it behind without a second thought.” That’s the way they start every channeling: “These are some ideas–be my guest, but don’t get stuck on them.” They’ll offer them for what they’re worth and they don’t want you to worry about it. If you like it, great; if you don’t like it, then move on.

So I think if you keep that in mind and you keep in mind that you’re really trying for your highest and best channel, whatever that may be, then you’re going to be doing your best work. After that it’s practice, practice, practice, because you can’t ever practice enough. You can always get better. I have worked for so many years and I can see where I’ve made some strides, but I consider myself a beginner still. We put the stuff up and if it’s helpful to people, then great. And people say, “Yes, this is helpful.”

Don’t let anybody judge you and don’t worry about whether somebody else is a good channel or a bad channel, just ask yourself what that channeling makes you feel like. If it brings you down, if it makes you scared, if you contract in fear because of it, it’s probably not a positive channel, at least not entirely. If it lifts you up, if it expands you, if you’re delighted, if you find it helpful, if you find love in it, it’s probably positive channeling.

Well, can you think of anything else you’d like to tell the folks that have loved you for so many years?

No, my message to everybody is “I love you, I love you, I love you.”

Ok, let’s have a party with love.

Let’s all do that. Let’s all love each other.

Well, it’s been a pleasure recording you and having this interview at this time, and I hope that we can do it again sometime soon.

I hope so, too, sweetheart.

It’s been my pleasure.