Carla’s interview with Wynn Free on his Monday audio program

Wynn

This is January 7, 2013; Monday night. We’re Wynn Free in Sedona, Terry Brown in Sedona and Carla Rueckert in Anchorage, Kentucky. Carla is on tonight not as a guest; she’s on as part of the family. You know, All in the Family with a twist.

Carla

Right; lemon or lime?

Wynn

If you’re listening for the first time, if you’re one of those new people, be patient because it’s not obvious what happens here. This is a very unusual call and it’s based on this idea that there is intelligence in other dimensions, in other timelines.

There’s positive intelligence; there’s negative intelligence as well. And we think we’re connecting with positive intelligence. This intelligence has explained itself as these two group souls. One of them is made up of graduates of this realm and one of them that didn’t come into this realm [but] created it.

That sounds pretty ludicrous, doesn’t it? If I came into a call and I heard somebody say that, especially if they sounded like me, I would say, “Is this guy putting us on?” You have to make your own decision. There’s a huge amount of evidence that what I just said is actually true. But you’re not supposed to believe it until you kick the tires quite a bit.

On this call tonight I’m going to talk about something that I discovered in 2003 when I was busy kicking the tires. There is a sense of unreality to it and the premise of what we’re doing is so “out there” and it is so out of normal reality that you have to kick the tires. You can’t believe it at first glance.

Carla

We wouldn’t want you to.

Wynn

We wouldn’t want you to. We want you to kick the tires. The goal here is to make you curious, not create a new system of reality for you to believe in because we say it. What happens is that there are a lot of phenomena around these calls; there are a lot of energies that people feel on these calls. I’m just a guy that’s discovering things; I’m always discovering things; I’m not sitting in any kind of exalted position.

Carla

You never will; it’s not your nature.

Wynn

Yes, I’m just a guy. I never will, because that’s a trap and who wants to be stuck in it? I’ve already trapped myself in the responsibility of three conference calls a week. I’m not doing that because I like people listening to me! I’m doing it because I have learned, since the time we started doing this, that for many people this is incredibly important. It answers questions that they have had all of their lives and it takes away doubts about things.

It is the essence of religion without a belief system, without anything to believe in. It’s the experience of those higher sources that just might have been intervening in this realm throughout history. We’ve thought of them as God, but it’s a new explanation and understanding of how God works.

There are many things that validate this work. There’s the Edgar Cayce-David Wilcock story. The story is not important, except inasmuch as it gets your attention and it says, “Maybe I should pay attention to that.” This is because Edgar Cayce’s built credibility over many years after his death.

There’s also what I call, “The Crazy Story of Wynn Free”. That’s where I have a new “personal relationship”; I’m not allowed to use the word “girlfriend”, Carla, I’ve been forbidden to use the word “girlfriend”, so it’s…

Carla

Oh, really?

Wynn

Yes. Daphne, are you on the line? Hello, Daphne?

Gijs

No, she’s not.

Wynn

Her name is Daphne. We had this epoch car-ride where it’s pouring rain and we do a prayer. At the end of the prayer I said, “Does anyone want to talk to me?” And she starts talking and answering questions.

Then we have Terry, who when I asked them, “Was Terry ever anybody famous?” they said, “Look up Saint Catherine of Siena”, who happened to have been this awkward young woman who would walk into a Catholic Church in Siena, Italy. They would ask her questions and write down everything she said, because they thought God was speaking to them through her. Terry happens to be the spitting image of Saint Catherine.

There are all kinds of little things like that. I remember when this was first happening for me, I kept thinking, “Could this be negative? Could the negative be creating a show for me so I would buy into it?” Because there is a negative. The negative comes through channeling and they can be deceptive. I said, “No. They could never put together all these incidents.”

They would have had to create Terry looking like Saint Catherine. They would have had to create me going to this conference in Monterey in 2002, when against all odds, I went there to interview some people in my broken-down car with not enough money to fix it if it broke down [completely]. I just went on a prayer; drove 400 miles, walked in and there’s Daphne staring at me and I said “No, the negative could never execute all that.”

The negative can talk through somebody and they can talk about Love/Light; they can sound really impressive. You have to look at any incident of channeling deeply; you can’t just believe it.

In particular, you can’t believe it because of an exalted name. In other words, if somebody is channeling and they say, “This is Jesus,” or say, “Archangel Michael,” or whomever, you can’t believe that whoever is talking is who they say they are. But you can consider the possibility.

The real bottom line is: can you take something from that experience home with you and change your life? If you do that, it doesn’t matter who was talking, because you changed your life. Often times the negative will often use exalted names because it’s a way of getting you to give up your power.

When I was first in the middle of all this I was checking it and challenging it. I was talking to a voice through Daphne and then Terry said that they created the physical universe. It was so casual; I mean, Daphne would knock me on the shoulder and say “Those guys want to talk to you again.” I said, “They can’t really be who they say they are, but I’m just going to ask them questions and record it.” And they said they were the Council of Elohim.

As I was reading David Wilcock’s material, David kept referring to this lady in Kentucky named Carla Rueckert and how much he was influenced by her. Carla had this material called The Ra Material, [also called] The Law of One and it’s in five books. You can go to her website, www.llresearch.org, and you can buy the books from Amazon; you can download them from her website. There were these dialogues with this voice that identified itself as a group soul and they said they were graduates of this realm, that is, in the Buddhist terminology, they got off the wheel of reincarnation.

Carla

The Buddhists say, “The Wheel of Karma”; same difference.

Wynn

The Wheel of Karma, okay. The Wheel of Karma, thank you. Carla is very articulate, so I have to watch myself. Carla and Terry were both librarians.

In any case, of course, I had studied metaphysical things and I had read about The Wheel of Karma and that you keep coming back and that eventually you could leave this realm. But they never said where you went, that I have read. Now this woman, Carla Rueckert, has this voice that’s identifying itself as a group soul and saying this is where they go, eventually. Now not immediately, they go to other planets, they go through more evolution. But the end-point, as far as I can tell, is to be part of this group soul that, then, acts as a helper and guide for planets at lower levels of evolution.

So I’m doing everything I can to try to make this real for myself, because what am I supposed to do with this? I felt crazy; there was more to it than that. Daphne was having negative attacks; Daphne would be screaming. I asked in one of the channelings with Daphne, “How do I connect with the parts of me that exist in other dimensions?” because I had all these synchronicities all my life. Then they said, “Write down your dreams.”

That night I put a pad by my bed and started writing down my dreams. When I looked at the pad in the morning I saw messages like, “It’s the insanity of passion that makes things happen in the real world,” and, “Communication from another dimension, just like Cayce; he slept to connect with that dimension,” and, “You have to look tall and thin. We’d like you to be the front-man.” Now keep in mind that I’m living in an RV.

Carla

You’re tall.

Wynn

I was tall; I was getting thinner. I had no money coming in. I was trying to write this book on David Wilcock-Edgar Cayce. My new personal relationship had a voice coming through her that said they created the physical universe. She left me and my old personal relationship started channeling the same voice and they said that what I’m doing is really important!

Truthfully I’m thinking, “Maybe they’re trying to get me on an ego trip here.” I mean, “You’re supposed to be the front-man.” Oh yeah, they’re kissing up to me; why didn’t they pick somebody else who could do this job way better than I. I don’t even know what to do. I mean, David Wilcock was very upset with me when I had this channeling experience, because here I was, his biographer, telling his story, when suddenly I’ve got voices talking to me that are doing miracles.

So I started doing a lot of cross-referencing on the internet. I started doing search-words and seeing what would come up. I was being exposed to material that I had never heard anyone say. I said to myself, “If this is true, there’s got to be clues somewhere.” I needed to look and find them.

In fact, at that time I remember I took one of my trips in one of my old funky cars from Los Angeles to Laughlin, Nevada. I wanted to meet this woman, Carla Rueckert, and see if she was crazy, because everything was so crazy. Put yourself in my shoes, okay?

I’m writing The Reincarnation of Edgar Cayce; that was way crazy enough. Now my new friend is channeling a voice that says they created the physical universe. And they’re talking to me in my dreams and giving me what seem to be messages of guidance.

Tonight I want to talk about one of the things that I discovered when I was doing this research. I did a Google search on the word ‘Elohim’ and I found something called Exegesis. It was written by a guy named Philip J. Dick.

Carla

I had read Philip K. Dick when I was in my 20s and 30s.

Wynn

Did you?

Carla

I thought of him as a science fiction-mystery writer; I didn’t realize that he had done any philosophizing, until you sent me this Exegesis article. It’s brilliant; it’s absolutely brilliant.

Wynn

I read this article; in it Philip K. Dick is talking about the Elohim. That’s why it came up. I got the word, ‘Elohim’. As I had read the article—and I’m going to re-read that article tonight—but as I read the article I said, “This guy is explaining exactly the same things that were coming through Carla Rueckert and through David Wilcock and through Daphne.” I was being exposed to these new ideas and I said, “Why have I never heard of this before?” He wrote this in a journal.

Let me tell you a little bit about Philip Dick. He happened to live in Berkeley at the same time I lived in Berkeley. He was a misfit; he didn’t fit in. He never made much money. He used to write trashy science-fiction stories.

I don’t know if you remember; there were a whole bunch of magazines that were on the newsstands back then, [like one] called Astounding Science Fiction. I think they would be in the supermarket check-outs, you know, next to the National Enquirer and there were comic books, science fiction comic books, I believe he also did those.

All of his life he was destitute, living hand-to-mouth, yet he was having mystical experiences. He kept a journal of his mystical experiences and after he died about twenty years later, they started turning his stories into movies. They became super-successful and I think the first movie was Blade Runner. Later on there was the film Total Recall and people say The Matrix series wouldn’t have happened if Philip Dick hadn’t laid the foundation.

Now they’re starting to put his journal up on the internet. Everyone is interested in Philip Dick, because of this amazing story of this guy that’s writing science fiction stories for books and magazines. Twenty years later, he’s a super-star and his estate goes up millions of dollars every time a movie comes out. The poor guy lived like a recluse in Berkeley, probably drinking, probably doing drugs, and communicating with what appears to be the Elohim. I wish Daphne was on, because he [Philip] had an experience that reminds me of some experiences Daphne had. I just printed this out:

Philip

“On February 20th, 1974, Dick was hit by the force of an extraordinary revelation after a visit to the dentist for an impacted tooth for which he had received a dose of sodium pentothal. A young woman delivered a bottle of Darvon tablets to his apartment in Fullerton, California. She was wearing a necklace with a pendant of a golden fish; an ancient Christian symbol that had been adopted by the Jesus counter-culture movement in the 1960s.

“The fish pendant, on Dick’s account, began to emit a golden ray of light, which Dick suddenly experienced as what he called, with a nod to Plato, anamnesis: the recollection or total recall of the entire sum of knowledge.

“Dick claimed to have access to what philosophers call the faculty of ’intellectual intuition‘: the direct perception by the mind of a metaphysical reality behind screens of appearance. Many philosophers since Kant have insisted that such intellectual intuition is available only to human beings in the guise of fraudulent obscurantivism, usually as religious or mystical experience, like Swedenborg’s visions of the angelic multitude.

“Yet the golden fish episode was just the beginning. In the following days and weeks, Dick experienced and indeed enjoyed a couple of night-long psychedelic visions with phantasmagoric visual light shows. These hypnagogic episodes continued off and on, together with hearing voices; hearing voices, let me say that again, hearing voices and prophetic dreams, until his death eight years later at age 53. Many very weird things happened, too many to list here, including a clay pot that Dick called ’Ho On‘ or ’Oh Ho’, which spoke to him about various deep spiritual issues in a brash and irritable voice.

“Now, was this just bad acid or good sodium pentothal? Was Dick seriously bonkers? Was he psychotic? Was he schizophrenic? And then he writes, ’The schizophrenic is a leap ahead that failed’. Were the visions simply the effect of a series of brain seizures that some call T.L.E. — temporal lobe epilepsy? Could we now explain and explain away Dick’s revelatory experience by some better neuro-scientific story about the brain? Perhaps, but the problem is that in each of these causal explanations there is missed the richness of the phenomena that Dick was trying to describe and also overlooks his unique means for describing them.”

Wynn

Just let me give you a little bit about the guy’s background, hearing voices, being crazy. Daphne, are you here? Geez, I wish Daphne was on, because of all the people in our group, Daphne has, I think, the most similar experience to Philip Dick. She’s had those kinds of… have you had those kinds of experiences, Carla?

Carla

I’ve had lots of times when I was either in the Light, or I was the Light, but I haven’t had the experience of seeing something that was symbolic. But one time Don and I were meditating together and after the meditation he said, “You’re not going to believe this, but I was in another reality”. He said, “All the colors were alive and I saw the rising of the most beautiful dawn that I have ever seen.”

He said, “I would open my eyes; I would be right here in the room; I’d close them and I’d be back there”. He did that several times just to make sure he wasn’t crazy. He gave himself to it and the experience lasted about half an hour. He was absolutely exalted. He asked Ra about it later and the Ra group said that he was experiencing what the magicians of the west have called “The Golden Dawn”. It was an initiatory experience.

Like Dick, Don was an extremely learned person that had been seeking all of his life. Unlike Philip Dick, Don was very steady. You know that he was a teacher. Then he left teaching because he could make a whole lot more money if he flew airplanes for a big airline. He flew for Eastern Airlines for fifteen years; he was very steady. But I think that what puts the two together is not just that they were seeking – Don was the most serious seeker I’ve ever known – but that they were learned in philosophy and in the various off-shoots of philosophy that we can call religion; like the old religions that we don’t see much anymore. I’m trying to think what they’re called; I’m having trouble with words.

There was a tremendous amount of energy in people who believed in gnosis, or pure insight. It was very much connected to anamnesis.

Wynn

That word again.

Carla

It’s just that the belief for Dick and also for Plato was—he was working with Plato’s work when he said this—that there was a knowledge of everything that was available to us, but that we had forgotten because of the shock of birth into this realm. [Plato] felt he was more a midwife than a philosopher, because he was helping people remember what they already knew.

That belief fueled Zoroastrianism!

Wynn

Right, okay. Terry? The story of Philip Dick having that kind of mystical experience, did you ever have an experience like that, that was memorable?

Terry

Well, I have experiences even now where the density of light really increases. It’s like everything shines like jewels. Like one day…

Carla

You know exactly that everything is okay; it all makes sense. That’s a wonderful part of my visions. It’s just that knowledge that all is well.

Terry

Yes, it is…

Carla

I love that.

Terry

…no matter what’s going on.

Carla

So everything is jewel-like. I interrupted you; go ahead.

Terry

I did a lot of work on myself for about fifty years when I would hear voices; in order to be able to distinguish if it was from my mind or if it was from something from outside. Was it a visiting ghost? Exactly what was it? I spent a lot of time learning to tune myself so that I got a lot of discernment about what was going on.

When I heard about Philip Dick it sounded like he was getting a lot of phenomena. He was cutting through realities and getting insights from the higher realms.

Carla

Yes.

Wynn

Well, this section of Philip Dick that I am going to read tonight – before I read it, I want to go back to one of the underpinnings of The Ra Material from Carla Rueckert. This is what really struck me; this is what gave me my “Aha!” experience. This is what started to move in my gut, to say, “Wynn, this is real!” It was hard to integrate it as being real; I mean, it was so outside of everything.

Originally I was thinking about the New Age, as I identified with being New Age and everything; things like, we should all be loving with each other. Now I’m learning about this battle, this reality system where there are dark and light, negative and positive, vying for energetic… I want to say dominancy, but it’s not the right word.

Carla

Control?

Wynn

Control? Well, the positive doesn’t vie for control so much as it infiltrates the realm. It’s kind of like if you were in a dark room and you turned on the light, the dark can’t help but get lit up; except it usually goes out again as soon as the light goes off. It hasn’t learned to hold the light on, but it feels the light when it goes on.

In Carla’s cosmology, in The Ra Material, there was the explanation that this realm was fairly screwed up, and fairly under the control of the negative. There was only one way to remedy this situation and that was that there had to be volunteers from the higher realms who would come into this realm, knowing that when they got here they would forget why they came. According to The Ra Material, 90% of them would fall into the darkness of the realm. They’d get caught back up in reincarnation. And maybe 10% of them would be able to integrate their reason for being here. My guess is, even of the 10% that were able to be of service, only a small portion of them got a full gestalt of why they were here. The rest of them were artists, hotel concierges, paramedic drivers; people that could hold space in this realm from higher dimensions and didn’t even know they were doing it. They didn’t even understand it.

They were called wanderers in The Ra Material. The Elohim said that some of their legions usually came into this realm for the same purpose and again they would get caught up in the realm. They would lose their reason for being here. Oftentimes they would become negative and they would be the controllers in this realm because they were powerful. But if no one ever came to this realm, it would be like handing the whole realm over to the negative.

I was first exposed to that idea, I guess, through David Wilcock and the Carla Rueckert material. I said, “Can this be real?” I’m going to tell you, [to those] who are listening: If you’ve been coming into our calls and you keep coming back and you say, “There’s something to that”, and you feel these connections, then I would very strongly suggest that you are one of those people.

Being one of those people doesn’t mean that you’re exalted, just because you graduated this realm and you come back. It’s not like everyone says, “Oh, thank goodness! Somebody came back from the other side. We’ve been waiting for you.” You’re usually discarded; you’re made fun of; you’re [called] crazy and you end up like Philip Dick, living his life half-crazy and being a genius, writing these things.

Carla, before The Ra Material came out in 1978, ¹ had anyone addressed the idea of wanderers that came in from higher realms?

When I was studying all this, this is what I discovered: Philip Dick had written [about] all this. It was in his journal and it closely matched what Carla said! I read it ten years ago; then I put it aside. A few days ago I happened to be having a conversation with my friend Jillian and I brought this out and read it. I have to get through this, I hope, without getting emotional. If I bite my tongue, it’s because it brings tears to my eyes. It might bring tears to some of your eyes.

What I’m going to do is: I’m going to read a paragraph, okay? Then I’m going to read another paragraph. This is deep. It’s very literary and very sophisticated. So I want to simplify it as we go, to make sure no one misses it.

Then I suggest that you look it up yourself on the internet if it touches you. Just look up ‘Philip K. Dick, Elohim, Exegesis’, because this is one of the things that triggered me out of doubt into saying, “Oh, my gosh, this is real. This is important.” It’s why I struggled for so many years to say, “How do I get this out into the world? This is going to be meaningful to people.” If it weren’t for things like this, I don’t think I would have endured. I would have gone and done something else.

I’ll translate some words as we go, because there are some vocabulary words here that you’re not going to understand. You will understand them in context.

Philip

“The belief that we are plural forms of God voluntarily descended to this prison world, voluntarily losing our memory, identity and supernatural powers, all of which can be regained through anamnesis, or mystical conjunction…”

Wynn

Now, ‘plural forms of God’, he goes on, is actually his name for Wanderers, that we’re part of God, we’re part of the higher realms that voluntarily descended to the prison world and we’ve gotten lost here. Carla, you know the word anamnesis, right?

Carla

Yes; it just means the recalling or the regaining of memory of what we’ve lost, either from incarnations before this or simply from our total self.

Wynn

Yes. Okay. “But it is known; it is regarded as the Great Blasphemy: ² the replication of the original sin mentioned in the first book of Adam and Eve and in Genesis.”

Now, you know when I read that, Carla, I go unconscious. Are you familiar with the terminology ‘great blasphemy’?

Carla

Well, yes.

Wynn

Well, tell us, Biblically, what is the ‘great blasphemy’?

…

Wynn

I think we lost Carla again.

Alright; let me keep going.

Philip

“For this pride and aspiration our original fall and exile and punishment, our being taken from our home, the garden-land, and put into the prison, was inflicted on us. “

Wynn

‘They wish to be equal to—like—us’, the Elohim say, and toss us down. Yet I have reason to believe that this, ’the Great Satanic Blasphemy‘, is true.”

Now I was hoping Carla would interpret that; she’ll be on later. The idea is, I believe, that there is this illusion that we have sinned and we are here because we sinned. We have to redeem ourselves from our sins. The fact of the matter is: we volunteered to come here and in the volunteering, we couldn’t help but get involved in the negative aspects of this realm—this is Wynn talking now—and through getting involved…

Carla

Okay, I’m back. ³ Do you want me to talk about Adam and Eve, or have you gone further?

Wynn

I’ve gone further. Do you know why you’re dropping off?

It’s probably because there’s too much energy on the line!

So I was talking about the Satanic Blasphemy and the idea that we suffer in this realm because we’ve sinned and in fact…

Carla

And that’s what I was going to say, that anybody that’s come up in the church and had a little drilling in the fact that we are sinful will say: we are sinful by nature; we can’t help being sinful; we can’t help erring.

In that context, the great hero in the garden was the snake, because the snake came in and cast light onto Eve and she realized that she was more than a sinful person. She could learn; she wanted to learn. Turning to the light meant that.

What are the ministers of the church going to have left, if we all think that we’re plural forms of God, if we all think that we’re little sparks of the Divine; if we think, “We’re already there, and all we have to do is remember”? That won’t work; that won’t work for the church.

So, that’s the great blasphemy.

Wynn

What I see is that those of us who descended into this realm didn’t come out saying, “Hey, we’re here, guys; are you ready? We’ve descended from heaven.” They got into the foulest, darkest stuff, not knowing what they were into because their minds were blank. But because they went through this, they got the wisdom, over many, many lifetimes, to figure out how it works and to pay back.

Carla

Just one more word, Wynn. Can you imagine the pain that people have gone through, and are going through, because they feel so dog-gone guilty for everything and they feel like they’re under judgment all the time?

Wynn

Yes.

Carla

It’s really a tough row to hoe.

Wynn

You people on the line now, when you’re going through tough times, don’t make yourself wrong and feel guilty. It’s actually built into your system to think that you could be great heroes. Maybe you won’t be a hero this lifetime; you’ll be a hero next lifetime. This is part of learning how the dark works so that you can stay out of it.

Let me keep going here:

Philip

”First, we are here voluntarily. We did not sin and we were not punished; we elected to descend. Why? [to quote the article,] ⁴ “To infuse the divine into the lowest strata of creation in order to halt its decomposing; the sinking of the lower realm.”

Wynn

Okay, what that’s saying is: our realm, this realm, was breaking off from All-That-Is and was getting so totally separated that the beings here were going to be lost to the dark. We [wanderers] decided to come into this realm to help stop that. It’s a primordial crisis in creation. Let’s see:

Philip

“The Godhead itself was falling apart into its yang and yin halves, with the lower-form universe as God expressed physically in time and space. The solution was for the divine, the yang, the light-form, to follow the lower realm down, permeating it and thus reuniting the cosmos into one totality.

“To do this, elements of light advanced, descended, into the dark kingdom, the immutable prison-world. Upon doing so, they shed and knew they would shed their bright nature, their memory, their identity, their faculties and their powers.

“They fell under the dominion of the delusion that the dark kingdom is real, which, when severed from the upper realm, it is not; the world we presently live in doesn’t exist. There they have lived as prisoners of the master magician, lord of the dark realm, who poses as the Creator and who may not know of the Light God, the true Creator, his other half.”

“But the light God and His pluriforms, the descending, invading sparks, have cunningly distributed clues in the dark realm to recall to the drugged and intoxicated sparks of light to their true nature and their mission and their true source of home, upon encountering these cryptic clues in this realm.”

Wynn

The Ra Material and David Wilcock-Edgar Cayce were cryptic clues, starting to put it all together. “Those cryptic clues”, the forgetful sparks of the upper realm, now prisoners in and of the lower realm, remember, regain their powers and faculties, and link back up with the upper realm and the light God; they are the light God in pluriform, His way of invading the lower realm in disguise.

Philip

“The light God, the Divine, has now crucially occupied critical stations in the sinking lower realm and begins the re-annexing of it back into the totality composed of both realms. The sinking ceases; the master magician is stripped of his autonomy and assimilated to the yang part of the Godhead as its passive counterpart and once more there is one macrocosm, ruled by the yang, or active, creative light God, assisted by the now receptive yin dark side. The Divine has triumphed at all levels! The prison is burst and the vast, light-filled garden kingdom is restored as the home of all creatures.

“These now whole creatures, composed equally of yin and yang, are what I term homeoplasmates. The yin part is home (as we know ourselves to be now, only), and the light or yang part is the plasmate or energy part (vs. the physical). Thus renewed and complete microcosms mirroring the renewed and complete macrocosm are achieved.”

Wynn

That means [that] what’s above matches what’s below.

Philip

“Reality is imparted to the otherwise unreal lower realm and the upper realm now extends physically into the realm of matter. The integrity of the Godhead is restored. Its two halves function in harmony and the primordial split, or crisis, is resolved and healed.

“I have read the above cosmology over and over and find no fault in it. In fact, I am amazed. It is in a sense acosmic and certainly Gnostic, but the Taoist overlay is novel and pleasing;”

Wynn

This is all high-brow and sophisticated.

Philip

“The Taoist overlay redeems it from the flaws of conventional dualistic religions and the problems therein.

“The lower realm sinks, not because it is corrupt or evil or somehow has rebelled, but because it is the nature of yin to sink, as it is the nature of yang to rise. The pre-Socratics [those people who were around before Socrates] were aware of this; the model of the winnowing fan and the concept of the vortex.

“Yang must assimilate yin to keep the totality intact; i.e., yang must renounce its natural tendency to rise and must descend. It cannot expect yin to rise, because yin is not wise; it is only nous…”

Wynn

I don’t know what that word means, nous– “

Philip

…that can understand that it must compensate against its own natural tendencies and do what is unnatural to it. Yin is, so to speak, thick, unthinking, not nous, [mind] but soma [body]; nous and soma (or psyche and soma) are the total universe organism.

“Descending into the yin realm is a sacrifice on yang’s part, which through its bright or wise nature it realizes it must make, but it pays a great cost in terms of suffering: loss of memory and identity, abilities, and faculties. It becomes pseudo-yin, literally disguised in the yin realm, as if it were actually yin, even to the point of forgetting, until reminded, that it is not. This is the agony we face here in this unreal and dense yin realm; we are yang traces: this is not our home.

“We are voluntary exiles here, alienated and alone, violating our own natures for a salvific purpose, a necessary purpose. Yin would not understand this and until anamnesis sets in for us, we in our distress do not understand the reason either. Eventually it will be revealed to us; meanwhile we ache with longing for our proper home, dimly remembered but deeply felt for.

“Thus we suppose we are being punished; it feels like punishment and we make the error of assuming we have sinned. On the contrary, we have renounced joy now, to produce a greater joy later, for the good of all creation; we are the Godhead itself, suffering the need to be what it is not, to ensure the ultimate stability of the Universe: the unity of love.

”Moral: it is the ethical requirement placed on the yang traces by their own bright nature, to abandon their natural tendency to rise, to escape what is heavy and dark and sinking; they must go in pursuit of the falling part of the cosmos, for the benefit of those and that which otherwise would be lost. This is the highest law: to violate one’s own nature for another’s good—and the most difficult and painful law to fulfill.

“Because of this need there is distress in the cosmos, distress for the innocent especially. My cosmology simply presents it as fact. To escape it we would have to allow the cosmos to decompose. Could we do that? The tragedy is that by the very nature of the sacrifice we make we are occluded from knowing why. This is part of our sacrifice, our yang understanding. We must take on the dullness of yin to save the cosmos; we sacrifice the knowledge of why we sacrifice and assume guilt, spurious guilt, in its place. This is asking a lot.

“But consider who we really are; or once were and will be again. Who else can do it? There is no one else. There is only yin, which does not know. The part of the organism that knows must help the part that doesn’t know. But this means abandoning its own knowing. It becomes what it helps, a dreadful irony, one that hurts. But it is only temporary, just for a little while. And then we go home for all eternity.”

Wynn

Then we’re going to do something special with Carla on the phone line. If you’re listening on BBS, we’re going to wish you good evening and thank you for being here. We’ll see you Wednesday.

When we do a mail-out on this, I’m going to post on the thespiritchannel.net the text of that whole thing so you can read it.

Hang on the phone line for a minute longer. We have a special treat. If you’re on BBS, we’ll see you next time.

Now Carla, are you there?

Carla

I am.

Wynn

I’ll tell you what. I’m just going to read this last paragraph because this is like a poem; it builds to this dramatic point. The point is that there are so many millions of people on this planet, particularly many of those of us, who resonate with this kind of material that we’re presenting, who voluntarily chose to come into this realm knowing they would forget everything.

They did it as a huge sacrifice, getting re-trapped in reincarnation until they could find something that would wake them up. They did it because if they didn’t, this realm would be lost. It’s only those beings that made that sacrifice that gives this realm the hope, the possibility of reuniting with the Yang, the greater light God in the Universe. Philip Dick’s moral [is]:

“It is the ethical requirement placed on the yang traces by their own bright nature to abandon their natural tendency to rise, to escape what is heavy and dark and sinking; they must go in pursuit of the falling part of the cosmos, for the benefit of those and that which otherwise would be lost. This is the highest law: to violate one’s own nature for another’s good and the most difficult and painful law to fulfill.

“Because of this need there is distress in the cosmos, distress for the innocent especially. My cosmology simply presents it as a fact. To escape it we would have to allow the cosmos to decompose. Could we do that? The tragedy is by the very nature of the sacrifice we make we are occluded from knowing why. This is part of our sacrifice: our yang understanding. We must take on the dullness of yin to save the cosmos; we sacrifice the knowledge of why we sacrifice and assume guilt spurious guilt in its place. This is asking a lot.

”But consider who we really are or once were and will be again. Who else can do it? There is no one else. There is only yin, which does not know; the part of the organism that knows must help the part that doesn’t know, but this means abandoning its own knowing. It becomes what it helps, a dreadful irony, one that hurts. But it is only temporary, just for a little while. And then we go home for all eternity.”

That’s the end of that. Carla, are you on?

Carla

I am. I just think he was brilliant to put that together. It sounds, as he noted, very much in some ways like the Gospel of John in the Bible, stating that: “The light came into the darkness and the darkness knew it not”. But the darkness also could not do anything to remove it, so the light remained. We are children of the light if we believe in Jesus, very similar in those points.

Wynn

Yes.

Carla

And, Jesus himself often said, “You are heirs through hope of the Creator; you are children of God. You are sparks of the Creator. ⁵ I give you the Holy Spirit and that Spirit is with you until the end of the age. ⁶ And that Spirit will be able to share with you the knowledge that you do not have. Ask for the Holy Spirit; ask for its passion; ask for its surety.” ⁷

I think in whatever way we call upon Spirit—if we can escape Christianity, fine—it doesn’t matter. What matters is our awareness of who we are. We have come into the darkness; we are not the darkness. We are attempting, in our clumsy way, to lighten the darkness. There is great joy in that service, and there is great suffering in that service.

I certainly can testify to that, but I would not change anything in my life, not one iota of it, because of the joy of knowing that I’m actually helping. I get letters every day, so I no longer have any question. “Am I helping? I’m helping. Okay, I get it.” I just want to go on and keep on and be a part of this wonderful sacrifice that we all are a part of, so that we find out who we really are, or who we once were, as Dick says, and will be again.

Who else could do it? There’s no one else, except us bozos. Isn’t it funny? Isn’t that ironic and isn’t it wonderful, that we bozos can do this thing? And we can do it together; that’s the thing. We can’t do it isolated from each other, not really.

We really have to know that everybody else is right there with us, or wants to be and wants to know how. So the service is the imparting of information to help people get it; to help people begin their own walk in spirit.

Wynn

And, we are actually extensions of the divine in this realm.

Carla

Indeed.

Wynn

And, if not for us, who? That’s what he’s saying.

Carla

Jump up to the plate, humanity.

Wynn

To the plate.

Carla

Yes.

Wynn

Forget “Step up to the plate, humanity.” Just step up to the plate, those of you who are listening and can integrate this. You don’t have to feel guilty; you don’t have to feel shame.

Carla

No, no. If it appeals to you, grab onto it and there are people to help you with that.

Wynn

Right.

Now we have something special we’re going to do. I’m going to un-mute everybody and see who wants to take a chance; I’m not going to tell you what you’re taking a chance for. Is that okay, Carla?

Carla

It’s okay, except that I was wanting to ask you if I could tell you the history of Rosie?

Wynn

We are; we are going to that.

Carla

But if I tell you the history of Rosie, then that will spoil your surprise.

Wynn

Right. So let’s just have somebody that thinks they need a lot of support and help, somebody who is really going through it. Let me see; the problem here, the reason I’m being so un-up-front, below the surface, in bringing this, is that everybody is going to want this. We don’t have time and Carla doesn’t have the energy. So we’re just experimenting with this, to see if we can do it for a few people to see how that works.

As of this moment, Carla and I are going to do some kind of session on Saturday where we’re going to do a three-hour session discussing The Law of One Material. Watch for my notice; there’s going to be a small charge. No one will be turned away that can’t afford it. On that note:

Do we have any volunteers?

Theresa

Theresa will take a chance.

Daphne-II

I’d like to go after Theresa; this is Daphne, please. This is Daphne II.

Wynn

One more.

Colleen

Colleen.

Wynn

Colleen, okay.

One time Carla and I were doing one of our Monday night shows, probably a year ago. I don’t remember how it came up, but I discovered that Carla had an unusual talent that was different from the Ra channelings or the Q’uo channelings. I wanted to take a moment and let Carla share with you a little bit about this unusual talent that she has that came up on that show. Go ahead, Carla.

Carla

Okay; in 1971, which was three years before I began channeling and while Don was still involved in trying to look at physical things rather than metaphysical things, we went to Anderson, Indiana to several séances where people were talking to their dead relatives. Don just wanted to find out if it was true that there was life beyond death. He was really, truly seeking hard.

There were three séances that we went to that were completely people running around in sheets and bilking the public. Then we went to a fellow named James Tingley and he was remarkable; he was the most authentic materialization medium you could ever want. We went to him twice; it was just a pleasure to be in his séance.

The second séance that we were in was very powerful. At one point, a little form rose up, not from his enclosure which is where the light, you know, the [ecto]plasm, usually comes from, but it just rose up from the floor. It ran around the circle to me and I couldn’t see. I don’t see well in the dark; I have only 30% of my cones and rods which means I don’t see well in the dark.

So Don said to me, “You’ve got somebody hanging onto your knee and just hugging you for all she’s worth; she looks like a little child.” She said her name was Rosie and she was an angel. She just loved me and loved my energy and she wanted to be with me always. She promised me that she would make me feel safe; she promised that she would always love me and she promised me that she would help me find lost things. She hasn’t ever helped me find lost things; I’m too dense for that, but she’s been wonderful.

I discovered, one time when I was desperately concerned for a friend of mine, that Rosie could ask other angels if they wanted to come and be with people. So I discovered I had the ability to ask Rosie and Rosie would tell me who the angel was and where they were going. I would appreciate it if I could hear just a bit about your story before I ask Rosie anything because I’d like to be a friend of yours and not just a stranger. When I ask Rosie, I’d like to be your pal and say, “My friend needs help.” Thanks.

[Some people could not hear Carla.]

Wynn

In case I’m louder than Carla, I’ll just tell you in a couple of seconds what she said. She had this little light being who introduced itself to her and said it was Rosie and she wanted to work with Carla. Rosie was associated with all these other angels and Rosie had the ability to assign angels to people to help them. So that’s what we’re going to do right now.

I know everybody wants an angel assigned to them. I’m going to work on the project to figure it out how we can do this en masse. But right at the moment we can’t. We had three people. I wanted Theresa, she was the first person to un-mute herself; do *6 and just say hello. We’ll let you know when we hear you, Theresa.

Theresa

Thank you so much.

Wynn

Theresa, maybe you could just share a little bit about yourself, so that they can tune into your energies. Then we’ll turn it back over to Carla and see what happens. What would you do with an angel if you had a personal angel to help you?

Theresa

Oh, wow! That’s a lot! Let’s me see if I can grab things quickly that pop in my head as important. I’m adopted; my parents were estranged from me. My father spent his life in prison. My mother’s schizophrenic. My grandparents raised me; my grandfather came from Hungary. They kept the family secret about being Jewish from Hungary for years; I just found out recently.

I have found out a lot about myself in the past year that is unfolding to me and I don’t really know why, except that I think that I gain some strength from knowing some of my ancestry. I’m alone and get lonely; I’m estranged from my husband. I’ve lost everyone in my life, my daughter, my husband, my mother and father, so everyone that’s really important to me.

So I find myself alone now, far away from everyone, in a cabin on a frozen lake; it’s beautiful here. I’m trying to find my purpose in life; and, finally I’m alone to do that. If I had an angel I suppose I would want that angel to be of assistance in that.

Carla

Mostly what the angels do is they just make you feel safe. They make you feel that you’re not alone, that you’re always loved, just loved to death, just loved and loved; you know, hugged and hugged. I think that it grounds you in a funny way to have an angel with you that is part of your mission in life. Let’s see what Rosie has to say:

Rosie, are you there, sweetheart? Rosie’s here. Well, Rosie did you offer an angel the opportunity to go and see Theresa? Yes. And who is going to go? Oh my goodness! It’s a fellow named Quinn. She says that he is very eager to help you; very eager to be with you. He’ll do his very best to help you to realize your mission and just realize what a wonderful person you are. So you have Quinn.

Now, you must ask for him and you need to thank him every day. Otherwise, following the rules of free will, he won’t be able to help you. Just say, “Quinn, I know you’re there; thank you so much.” Then you’ll feel that safety and you’ll feel that companionship. You can go from there.

Theresa

Thank you so much, Quinn, thank you very much. I look forward to any assistance I can glean from Quinn. I will be very grateful. Thank you.

Wynn

Let us know your experiences, okay? Share it back.

Morgan

Wynn?—Morgan here.

Wynn

Morgan?

Morgan

I’m in California.

Wynn

Wait a second; I don’t know if we have time for four.

Morgan

I don’t need one; I just wanted to tell you how wonderful it has been having the angel Morgan come to me.

Wynn

Oh, was it Morgan?

Morgan

I think it was Morgan. I thought that’s what you said; things got a little muffled.

Wynn

I think it was Morgan.

Terry

It was definitely Morgan.

Morgan

Yep; Morgan for Morgan, that’s what I heard in my head. I just can’t thank you enough; it has been so… The last few days have been so different from the whole rest of my life; I can’t tell you how wonderful and appreciative I am.

Carla

Oh, I’m so glad.

Morgan

He asked me when he first came, “Can we be one being-thing?” I said, sort of like I always do, I said “Can we just be friends first?” He said, “Whatever you want”. Then by the morning I said, “If you can integrate, come on in; that’s fine”, because it was such a light-lit, blessed evening. It was the most peaceful hug I have ever gotten in my life. It was fabulous. He was talking to me all night; that’s fine with me.

Wynn

Morgan, you tend to be intuitive; you can feel things and sense things, right? Not everyone may get their angel talking to them; they only may get good energy.

Morgan

That too, yes.

Wynn

I just want to make sure that everyone doesn’t expect your experience, but thank you for sharing it; that was the first time we did this recently.

Carla

That was the first angel.

Wynn

The first angel and why we decided to try this again, thank you, Morgan.

Morgan

You’re so welcome. Thanks you guys; bless you guys and keep up the good work.

Wynn

Is Daphne-II there?

Daphne-II

Yes, hi, can you hear me?

Wynn

We hear you.

Daphne-II

Okay, great. I called because I need guidance. On 12.22.12 I had a light show that appeared in my bedroom. Since that night, the light hasn’t left my room; I had red lights, green lights, fluttering lights and this went on for an hour and a half. Since that time, the lights – they’re spirally and they’re in my room every night; I just realized two days ago that the lights are coming inside of me. I realized this because I went through being afraid; I slept in another room. I decided to look into the darkness and that’s when I saw all the lights; they’re not going away. They’re now a part of me, and I see them in my hands and in my legs, in my whole body.

I’m going through… I feel in love and then I feel fear. So I’m not sure what to do.

Carla

I encourage you not to feel the fear. This happened to you because of the enormous changes in energy after the winter solstice on December 21st, 2012.

Daphne-II

Okay, but why are they becoming part of me now?

Carla

They were part of you in the first place and for some reason…

Daphne-II

I’ll be at work and I’ll go in the bathroom in the dark just so I can see the lights are still there.

Carla

Well, that’s handy.

Daphne-II

They’re still there, everywhere I go.

Carla

I think that what you need to do if you don’t want them to be there all the time is just talk with them about it. Say, “I really am having trouble with seeing you all the time; could you dial it back? Could we do this at a certain time of the night, or could we do this when I am ready for it and not all the time, because it’s kind of blowing my mind.” Talk with them; they’re positive; they’re going to listen to you. They’re going to want to obey your free will.

Morgan

My mother would say, “Dial it down to 90.”

Carla

You need to ask them to do that; just say that this is disturbing you and you know that they don’t want to disturb you; that they’re trying to tell you there’s a different reason, but you get it. You don’t have to see it all the time. That’s what I would do.

Daphne-II

Are these angels already, or can you give me an angel?

Carla

Oh yeah; they’re angels already.

Daphne-II

Yes. So do I need another one?

Carla

They’re just friends of Rosie.

I need to leave at 10:30; so if we’re going to offer another angel, do we wish to offer this angel, Wynn?

Daphne-II

Bless you, Carla. Thank you, Wynn.

Wynn

Theresa, you would like an angel, yes?

Carla

Theresa just got an angel.

Theresa

I got Quinn and Quinn has told me that love is the glue that holds the Universe together.

Wynn

Daphne II, you’d like an angel, right?

Daphne-II

Yes, I would.

Wynn

So go ahead, Carla.

Carla

I need to know just a bit; can you just talk about yourself a little bit so that Rosie knows which angel to send because angels have personalities.

Daphne-II

Yes; I’m 52 years old. I’m the oldest of three children born and raised in the Illinois area. Right now I’m looking into starting divorce procedures with my husband. We still live in the same house. I don’t have any children, but I was a foster parent for like six years. I was guardian over my niece and nephew. I’ve just had a lot of things going on in my life lately, where I want to change jobs and the thing with my marriage. My mom has a terminal illness. So I feel a lot of pressure.

Then, with this coming with the lights…

Carla

Alright, Rosie. That should be enough; Rosie, is that enough? She says, “Yes, that’s enough.” She can say… Rosie, who, sweetheart? I’m having trouble getting a name. Could you say that again, Rosie? Her name is Esme; I’ve never heard that name before except in literature: Esme. She’s a young woman; she says she would very much like to help you take the pressure off and find a place of safety.

Daphne-II

What is her name?

Carla

Esme.

Daphne-II

Esme.

Carla

Odd name, I had trouble with it, too, but that’s her name. She says she would very much like to be with you and help you to deal with life. She says she will attempt to make a safe place for you and to make you feel loved.

Daphne-II

Okay. Thank you.

Gijs

Now we have Colleen. She would love to have an angel too.

Carla

I promised my husband I would leave at 10:30, so let’s have her next time we do this, which is Wednesday, right?

Colleen

Wednesday?

Carla

Are we going to do it? Are you there, Wynn?

Wynn

I’m here, and yes. I guess so.

Carla

Am I supposed to call in Wednesday to do some angels?

Wynn

Yes, call in at the end of the call on Wednesday and we’ll do some. Okay?

Carla

Let her be the very first next time, because I’ve got to say, “Bye-bye”; it’s 10:30. It’s been my blessing; you just lift me up, you guys. Thank you, Wynn, you’re always a pleasure. God bless you, Terry; I can feel you; we haven’t talked. Thanks for the email; I’ll do my best to send you the re-edited thing, my beautiful re-editing and bye-bye for now you guys. I love you.

Wynn

So we’re going to stop the recording. We’ll see you all next time.